for: Besson New Standard satin silver 3-valve comp. lovers only...

[bloke]

customer instrument...

great valves (later vintage unplated with nickel cross porting), was beat up, black, had been taken apart before (in England, based on reported history), ball (for horse-mounted playing strap) was smushed pretty far into the bottom bow.

I did remove the bottom bow again - with Mrs. bloke assisting in rebound *technique dent removal (but nothing else was removed - other than the mouthpiece receive, in order to mount it on the lathe and change the size from British to standard).

It got a chem clean, a silver dip, some hand polishing, etc...new corks/felts, of course...

These sound (to me) a lot like a Meinl-Weston 25, and are nimble.
1-3 fixes the sharp E-flat in the staff, and 3 fixes the sharp G in the staff.

As with most all customer work, this was not a "restoration", but a very extensive (and hurried) repair.
They live close to my out-of-town gig (near Alabama) this weekend, and I'd like for them to meet up with me and hand me some dough.









________________________________________________
*which defines me as a "tech"

@LeMark
This thing plays just about as nicely as any 5-valve German-made whatever...and the fake notes are just about sousaphone-good.
E-flat in the staff (with 1-3, if sustained) and G in the staff (with 3, if sustained) defines superb intonation - along with a broad sound, and plenty of it. NO COMPARISON WHATSOEVER between THESE and Y@m@t00t-201/321...
now: If they would just back off of the "Sovereign" and "Prestige" jazz, return to these, and make them just like this again...3+1 comp...?? ok...whatever...but that will just prompt band directors and kids to complain about reaching over to mash a button that's not even needed.

[prairieboy1]

That's a beautiful horn!

[bloke]

It looks really good, and the owner is really pleased.
As with all digital pictures of instruments, the actual instrument doesn't look quite as good as the pictures.

I'm sort of proud of that magnet work that I did on those smaller bows in the picture of the tuba sitting upside down.
That stuff was all smushy.

[tofu]

.

[bloke]

What year is that thing? It doesn’t have all the 50 medals of honor stuff under the New Standard on the bell. Or is that left off of the ones originally sold in England?

It was bought by a person back when they were in the military and either stationed in London or visiting London or temporarily stationed in London or something. They told me that they bought it in a pawn shop there.

My own fantasy is to find a perfect satin silver 3+1 of these things with a detachable 24-in recording bell, and for peanuts. I have all the parts to build what I describe above, but I'd rather have it given to me already perfect.
... I even have a 17 inch detachable bell with a Besson collar in the ready... in the meantime, I have a three valve compensating version in pretty good condition of what I've described previously in this paragraph. It's pretty amazing for outdoor gigs, particularly now that I'm more acclimated to B-flat. (The eventual 3+1 that I will build has the nickel tuning - rather than economy brass - slides from a 3-valve compensating which I will put on the 3+1... and the finish will be lacquered brass - to show off those pretty tubes.)

But...OMG!!!! TOP-ACTION (which is known to cause cancer in laboratory animals in California)

[andycat]

If they DID start making these again, or a modern manufacturer off this design, 3+1 with 19" bell, it would be the best compensator around bar none.

I have the Imperial version of this, but nowhere near as pretty. But the sound and tuning are fantastic. If it had a 19" bell I'd use it more. The 17" can't quite keep up with modern brass bands without being a bit barky.

Many players over here are hunting out BBb and EEb 19" bell Imperial/New Standard instruments rather than buy newer models.

[bloke]

If they DID start making these again, or a modern manufacturer off this design, 3+1 with 19" bell, it would be the best compensator around bar none.

I have the Imperial version of this, but nowhere near as pretty. But the sound and tuning are fantastic. If it had a 19" bell I'd use it more. The 17" can't quite keep up with modern brass bands without being a bit barky.

Many players over here are hunting out BBb and EEb 19" bell Imperial/New Standard instruments rather than buy newer models.

If we're guessing the the rest of the instrument's taper has not been changed (not known, obviously), I wonder if the bell size alters intonation characteristics, and if (??) the entire bell is larger, and not just the horizontal flare.

With most all of the old 17"-bell Edgware ones, the only pitches that I find which need nursing are E-flat up in the staff (remedied by playing with 1-3, if held) and G up in the staff (remedied with playing with the 3rd valve).

When I pick up various makes of newer (expensive!) ones with larger bells, I seem to find more tuning issues.

[andycat]

[
If we're guessing the the rest of the instrument's taper has not been changed (not known, obviously), I wonder if the bell size alters intonation characteristics, and if (??) the entire bell is larger, and not just the horizontal flare.

With most all of the old 17"-bell Edgware ones, the only pitches that I find which need nursing are E-flat up in the staff (remedied by playing with 1-3, if held) and G up in the staff (remedied with playing with the 3rd valve).

When I pick up various makes of newer (expensive!) ones with larger bells, I seem to find more tuning issues.

The 19" versions of the BBb's that I've played (coveted) are just as in tune as the 17" ones. As were the 992 straight after. They nearly perfected it, so in true British fashion we had to change it.........

[bloke]

Perhaps his opinions on strategies have changed...(??)

...but Gene's longstanding stated strategy (mentioned to me most of the times I played for him) was to get though the filtering rounds with a 186.

Combining those comments with having heard Mr. Bobo play the opening to Meistersinger so beautifully with his Symphonie F (which features a basically 186 size bell) convinced me to never play that piece (audition or performance) on a big tuba ever again. (I'm thinking - ?? - Gene would probably play that piece on contrabass...)

' eye-opening what a large percentage of people prefer "clear" over "wide".

[Thomas]

The conductors that I experienced in symphonic wind orchestras very much like me bringing my Besson 17" BBb New Standard (3+1 comp.) from 1967 because it blends so well and supports the requested character of sound fitting almost every section I played with. Got a similar feedback from sound engineers in the rare studio settings that I participated as an amateur. It's a kind of "Swiss army knife". However I agree the tuba has its limits when pushed too hard in large settings or loud sections and/or ensembles. When I am the sole (or sole BBb) player in such occasions, I bring my German 5/4 BBb which just offers a lot more headroom for relaxed playing.

That having said (and what triggered my post), it's a great high quality instrument sufficient for most non-professional wind orchestra settings, totally underrated by tuba players, especially given the current pricing between 1000 and 2000€ for most of the 3-valve comps. I bought my (ex-)lacquered 3+1 in 2002 for 1.200€ + spent approx. 500€ for dent and valve work to be in a 100% playing condition with silent and fast valves (it's not shiny nor fancy).

edit: mine has one pitch to be corrected - middle Ab "in the staff" tends to be low and must be (easily) lipped, also the middle octave tends to be "narrow" with my mouthpiece preferences. If the player is aware of that, the instrument related tuning all over the range is near perfect.

[iiipopes]

Using 3rd valve alone to "fix" sharp G & D is not a "fix." The horn was designed this way so all the pitches are dead on. I know. I owned one once. It was magnificient. But it was a tank, and mine did not play the near-pedal tones, or privilege tones, at all. But with a Wick 1 it was as sonorous as a tuba gets, and using a Bach 18 gets "our American cousin" tone.

[Patitomalo]

Hola estimados.

Me compré hace poco esta tuba Eb, y tengo algunas consultas, si me pueden ayudar por favor:

Cuál es el modelo exacto?
Cómo es la escala (pisadas en los pistones)?

Cualquier otra información se los agradecería.

[bloke]

As long as the valves are in good condition, these play really well. About the only dubious pitch is a E-flat in the staff which is high.

[iiipopes]

Hola estimados.

Me compré hace poco esta tuba Eb, y tengo algunas consultas, si me pueden ayudar por favor:

Cuál es el modelo exacto?
Cómo es la escala (pisadas en los pistones)?

Cualquier otra información se los agradecería.

Google translation (for those of us who do not speak Spanish:
"Hello dears.

I recently bought this Eb tuba, and I have some questions, if you can help me please:

What is the exact model?
What is the scale like (steps on the pistons)?

Any other information I would appreciate."

This is a Besson New Standard model.
Generally, the scale is superlative. At least it was on the one I used to own.
Please see above for other comments about this tuba.

[C J]

and for everyone on the right side of the pond:
https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/ ... 58-74-3813

a New Standard Bb with 17 inch bell for 1325 euro or about $1425

[tofu]

and for everyone on the right side of the pond:
https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/ ... 58-74-3813

a New Standard Bb with 17 inch bell for 1325 euro or about $1425

ummm…at today’s conversion rate it would be $1685 in USA dollars. A good price either way if the valves are good - the case (with special duct tape job ) has 1980 on it - not sure what the build quality was in 1980. QC got a bit wonky in the late 70’s - early 80’s as I recall. Mine is from 1969 - an excellent period at Edgeware. These are excellent horns if the valve are good and aligned well. Way underappreciated these days - so an informed buyer can buy a horn that plays way above the price paid. For a good HS player or college non-music major or an adult these are good horns at good prices. They aren’t that hard to hold if you approach it right but they are heavy so you do have to be able to transport it.

[MartinMan]

Absolutely stunning!