F tuba in a community band?

[eupho]

I have gotten to that stage in life where the weight of a nice BBb or CC full-size tuba is no longer manageable. A Euphonium specialist, my upper range there is also is not what it used to be. A British style EEb would, of course, have a shorter bore(less air) but not any less weight than a BBb. Have others of my vintage opted for 4 front valve EEbs or even F Tubas to keep playing? Do they work for a community band setting?

[Rick Denney]

The nice thing about volunteer bands is that you bring what you want.

Beyond that, it depends on the group and the other players in the section.

A lot of band music is written in octaves. Back in the day, this supported Eb players who often only had three valves. If the other musicians like playing low, an F player can routinely cover the higher octave and that will add clarity to the section.

But you’ll still need command of the low register and at least a 5-valve F tuba. My Yamaha 621 F tuba would (and has) serve that purpose, though there is a volume ceiling above which it will not go. My B&S Symphonie doesn’t have that ceiling, but in terms of air it’s no less demanding in the low register. In some ways it’s more demanding below the staff compared to an easy-blowing Bb like, say, a Miraphone 186 or King 2341.

The Yamaha meets the requirement of being easy to carry and hold, though some (not me) complain about its ergonomics.

Given that Lee Stofer seems to have several of these available, I’ll mention the normally rare vintage Martin fiberglass tuba. It’s a 3-valve Bb, small bore, with brass valves and fiberglass outer branches. These are very light—lighter than the Yamaha F tuba—and easy to play and carry. They are about the size of an old American Eb tuba and they have a very decent warm sound.

Rick “sympathetic to the need” Denney

[jtm]

What Rick said about bringing what you like to a volunteer band.

My volunteer wind ensemble plays movie music. The past few cycles I've brought an F tuba, to try what you suggest. There are three tubas in the section, usually, the other guys have Bb tubas, I usually take high notes when there's a split part, and it works pretty well. By the time we get to the concert, I've decided that there's enough playing in the awkward (for me) range between low F (pedal on the F tuba) up to C that I use a C tuba after all. But if all I had or all I could carry was the F, it would certainly work.

I'm using the F tuba consistently in a brass band, though, so I do have a chance to play it regularly.

[Wally]

I normally play a 5/4 CC or a 4/4 BBb with my band, but occasionally use a Yamaha 4 valve upright EEb. It works fine, even in the lower register as it is fairly open down there. I assume you're a good player, so you'll make it work fine!

[Sousaswag]

I use my big F all the time. No problem. Nobody knows the difference.

[bloke]

After I walked away from academia early in adulthood () and sold of a couple of tubas, all I had (for several years) was my F tuba (which I bought new in 1982).
You name the type of venue/ensemble: it was there (and/but this was before people/tastes/vogue dictated that many of us have at least one jumbo-tuba. (My F tuba's bell was just as large as an - at that time - 186 bell, and the average valveset bore is just as large.)

7-piece (loud) jazz band (shortly after I bought that tuba new), where the tuba sound needs to feature a lot of BASS...

sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV2WcCoY5j0

==================================

symphony orchestra (same tuba, c. 40 years later) and all-stops-pulled-out pipe organ, where the tuba sound needs to generate lots of VOLUME...
same tuba (competing with a symphony orchestra and full-blast pipe organ a couple of years ago:
(Most of the tuba-noise is after 5:00.)
sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnMSy-KSr5U
(Please cut this orchestra some slack: It was during the shutdown, and all we had was ONE play-through of the ENTIRE symphony...as this is only the finale - prior to this show.)

F tuba advice...??
sure...Why not?

[Ace]

sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnMSy-KSr5U
(Please cut this orchestra some slack: It was during the shutdown, and all we had was ONE play-through of the ENTIRE symphony...as this is only the finale - prior to this show.)

Cut some slack for that orchestra? They sound pretty darn good to my ears. Congratulations to the Jackson Symphony.

Ace

[bort2.0]

I have gotten to that stage in life where the weight of a nice BBb or CC full-size tuba is no longer manageable. A Euphonium specialist, my upper range there is also is not what it used to be. A British style EEb would, of course, have a shorter bore(less air) but not any less weight than a BBb. Have others of my vintage opted for 4 front valve EEbs or even F Tubas to keep playing? Do they work for a community band setting?

Short answer:
Do it! At worst, it'll work just fine, but it will probably work much much better than that.

Longer answer:
Although most modern "band music" doesn't account for keys of tuba, a lot of older stuff was written with an assumption of BBb and Eb tubas in the section. Not like that happens much these days... but having 2 keys of tuba adds a heck of a lot of depth, clarity, and "meat" to the sound of the band. Especially if there's 1 or more tuba players playing BBb or CC in the band with you, playing Eb or F is only going to help the sound of the band.

Downside -- different fingering patterns and the need to re-learn all that. It all works out, but for some amount of time, it's frustrating to have a new tuba, with new quirks, and a new sound ("do this and it sounds like that" kind of brain/physical connections), probably a new/more appropriate to Eb/F mouthpiece, AND new fingerings. It's a whole lot of change all at once, and that's only fixed by spending more time with the new tuba. Wait... why am I making "more time playing the tuba" sound like a bad thing!

I used a Cerveny 653 F tuba in a community band for a summer or two. I was living in NYC, it was a large tuba section (only time in my life that's happened!), and it's just a pain to carry a large tuba around in the subway on a hot summer day.

It worked reasonably well. Tone/projection/sound output/etc... all were just fine. Nice blend, nice addition to a section with some good players on big tubas.

I do think I would have wanted a larger F tuba or an Eb tuba, to have more sound output and give more volume before it started to break up. That Cerveny is sort of like the 3/4 Yamaha tubas... it has a limit, and beyond that limit, it's not so great. Do what it wants and allows, and you'll be fine. I was just more used to large CC tubas, and the idea of laying down the biggest bass sound, and trying to bury everything with it. That's not what an F tuba is designed to do, so that's on me!

The Besson 983 that I owned for a little while was not a small tuba, not a light tuba, and would easily hold its weight in a community band section. I'm not sure I'd want to be the only tuba player with that tuba, but it would work pretty well depending on the rep. The Cerveny F... I played one concert where I was (unknowingly, unplanned to be) the only tuba player in an 80-piece band. Not recommended.

My current go-to tuba is my Martin medium Eb tuba. A wonderfully easy tuba to play, with a nice sound, good projection, and good low end. I keep thinking about selling it, but also keep thinking that when I'm older, I'll want something medium-sized that plays well. Much like you are asking right here, right now.

Downside with that tuba is that it's only 3 valves, and that's quite limiting. There are an awful lot of low Ab's in band music, and I don't really like jumping around octaves to play notes where I can.

[LibraryMark]

In every community band I have ever been in, if you can cover the part nobody will know the difference.

[bloke]

Think about the stark difference in sonority when comparing a recording bass (tuba) to a bass sax.

BOTH basic types of sounds (when played well) make people REALLY smile - when listening to 20's - 30's jazz combos...

...and (in various other types of ensembles) the LESS different various types of TUBA sororities make FAR LESS difference.

[eupho]

Thanks for the input, guys! Much appreciated.

[bloke]

If you own one of those F tubas that needs to be played the way it needs to be played in order to play C and B-natural below the staff - and maybe C sharp, playing bass parts in bands will certainly teach you how to blow those pitches the way they need to be blown on an F tuba.

[bort2.0]

If you own one of those F tubas that needs to be played the way it needs to be played in order to play C and B-natural below the staff - and maybe C sharp, playing bass parts in bands will certainly teach you how to blow those pitches the way they need to be blown on an F tuba.

Another F tuba advantage -- you'd have to try pretty hard to find one with LESS than 4 valves.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[C J]

Another F tuba advantage -- you'd have to try pretty hard to find one with LESS than 4 valves.

https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und ... 728431964/

[Big Francis]

There's a tuba player in the Twin Cities area that uses his YFB-822 in several high end civic groups. He's subbing in my community band for a couple concert cycles and the F tuba works just fine. It's already been said above, if you can play, community bands don't care what you're using.

Frank

[bloke]

In an orchestra, you'd probably be lucky if even the bass trombonist noticed that you brought in something different, and you would need to be the regular tuba player and they would need to be the regular bass trombonist - in order for them to notice. I'm sure that I only notice different trombones, because I'm always repairing or altering them for people.

In regards to a previous comment, all written-down music is something that I tend to categorize as "paint-by-number music", YET every written-down musician's job is to feign that it is their own music - by playing "musically". (As a sidebar-within-a-sidebar, European orchestra and band musicians seem to generally understand this better than American ensemble musicians, and their performances tend to be less dry and more interesting - and all the way from the progressing student level to the top professional level.) With written down music, some believe that are only two ways that a player can get through it. They can mess it up and draw attention, or they can not mess it up and not draw attention...yet a third way is to get through it, play it musically, and draw positive attention.

As far as the paint-by-number analogy and "playing musically" is concerned, I think back to when I was a child and my mother would pick up a pair of same topic paint-by-number pictures (two clown portraits, two toreadors, any sort of pair of same subject paint by number pictures) and she and I would sit down and each work on one of them. As she was an extremely talented commercial artist, she would make hers look as though they were not paint-by-number. Of course, mine looked very paint-by-number - even though I did a very good job of staying in the lines and using the correct colors. (She brought those home for us to work on together - I'm certain - to train my fine motor skills, and as a way to sit down and spend time with me. She was quite a person.)

bloke "per usual, changing the subject - when I become bored with the subject...and/or when a subject becomes 'all talked out'."

[tclements]

Warning! VERY opinionated response ahead. If easily offended, please scroll ahead.

Why would you want to do this? In a band, the tubas replace the orchestral bass section. The tuba section is supposed to lay down a broad, solid bass. Play the largest BBb or CC you own. Brass band is another matter, but in a concert band (wind ensemble, etc), play a big contra.

My 2¢ worth, respectfully submitted.

[Mary Ann]

The band I just was wheedled into joining for the next concert on tuba, is at a retirement community. They are happy to have ANY tuba that can play the parts. Yes if it were a larger high level concert band, a contra would be far preferred. But not all bands are that.

[jtm]

Warning! VERY opinionated response ahead. If easily offended, please scroll ahead.

Why would you want to do this? In a band, the tubas replace the orchestral bass section. The tuba section is supposed to lay down a broad, solid bass. Play the largest BBb or CC you own. Brass band is another matter, but in a concert band (wind ensemble, etc), play a big contra.

My 2¢ worth, respectfully submitted.

Even in my limited experience I've seen a lot more variety in the music and expectations for wind ensemble tuba. Music written for band can want tuba to have color and be brassy. Orchestra music expects tubas to cover string bass parts (and even string bass is not just broad and tubby), but also the orchestra tuba bits, which can be very different. If the music and the band are any good, tubas shouldn't be stuck with one tubby indistinct sound.