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Why aren't college professors pushing 3/4 tubas on their students? Why are all of these young freshmen buying 6/4 horns? We need more quality 3/4 horns on the market.
You can sit with them
Stand with them
March with them
Fit comfortably in a pit gig with them
Great for solo, chamber, band, orchestra, jazz playing
Agile
Great for when you can only afford one horn
Won't have to worry about selling a 6/4 you sunk a ton of money into because you didn't get the big orchestra gig out of college and have to pay off your performance degree.
Great for teaching. Especially if you must teach instruments other than tuba and need something more agile.
Won't have to sell because you have developed arthritis or back, hand, shoulder, and elbow issues.

Yes this is a complete troll job to activate the tuba god, but discuss among yourselves.

Say Amen! I absolutely agree. Ed

My little Arion copy is a great little versatile tuba. (Packer 379b) it has a bell very similar to a miraphone 185, with the bore larger than a 186. It also has impressive intonation

I've thought about replacing it with a miraphone 494, but for 3 times the price, (of what I could sell it for) I doubt it would be a great investment for a horn I basically use for teaching. Maybe I'll change my mind when I play a 494 in February at the army workshop or TMEA

But despite being an admitted troll post, you bring up some very valid points

My first tuba was a 184-4U CC Miraphone that I got in college.
Now it's the only horn I still use.

When I was in school I had a 186 (Bb), a YCB-822, and then a 188. When I had the 188 I also a YFB-621

While I was in school, a couple of other decent tuba players had…

Rudy 3/4 CC (Mike Roylance)
MW 2145 (Chris Olka)

Guys (full time pros) like @edfirth were killing it on 2341s out at the parks. Lots of 186 C players (Willie Clark, Paul Weikle) out there too.

A few people had bigger horns for rare occasions. The only person playing on something large consistently was Bob Carpenter and maybe Claude Kashnig although I think that was a 4/4 Rudy? I dunno, it’s been 30 years.

Anyhow, probably 99% of the kids out there could make do with a 3/4 or 4/4 contrabass for their playing in undergrad. It didn’t inhibit a lot of the fine players that are out there now.

When I was in college a cerveny 601 was considered an ungodly large tuba that nobody in their right mind would play on an every day basis

You look at a the CC version these days, it's really not that much larger than a Tuono or a Thor

This reply could easily be judged to be argumentative, but it's not. I think regular full size (rather than slightly smaller than regular full size) is probably the target to recommend.

I agree that everyone owning a jumbo is equally bad advice to everyone owning an F tuba, but what about something that's about the size of a King, a 186, or instruments in that size range? Aren't they the most useful for the most different things and sound the most like a "tuba"?

Your good Arion copy is a handy tuba, but with nearly an 8/10 of an inch bore size and the only part of it being a bit on the small side being the bell throat, it pushes pretty hard towards being a medium large size tuba (rather than a small one)...and it is handy, because medium large tubas do a whole bunch of stuff just fine.

About the only thing that medium large tubas don't do remarkably well is to play ~crazy~ loud without sounding shrill. The smaller tubas to which you refer start sounding shrill at a lower sound threshold, and that's okay but tubas are expected to play pretty loud quite often.

good smaller contrabass tubas:
Miraphone is going back and revisiting their smaller contrabass tuba offerings. Everyone's been discussing the 494, and I sort of think that the 282 (even though this model could use some revisiting and rethinking) defined the 184 B-flat as obsolete - other than the fact that you can find a 184 B flat for a lot less money used than a brand new 282. If you are pointing out that they're aren't many good 3/4 size choices in the C length, I would probably agree, but also don't particularly care.

"bloke, you're not mentioning any piston models."

I guess that's true, and in my head I'm also not mentioning any silver plated models. I'm only mentioning good models, without any consideration of their machinery.

finally:
Every once in awhile there's a post or a thread re: using an E flat tuba to play everything... which could well be a better option sonically than a whole bunch of small contrabass tubas which are available. The truth of the matter is that the best of these are all top-action compensating 3+1 configuration, and there's a huge northern western hemisphere top-action phobia (along with seemingly a lack of understanding regarding how to hold them and play them with comfort). It's also a little bit difficult to microtune these - even though the best of them offer really good tuning and many of the others offer pretty darn good tuning, but this can be addressed as well. Miraphone (again) offers one particular E-flat that is darn nice, but by the time I got down here I was sort of assuming that people might be tired of me only mentioning rotary instruments.

I’d actually push a good Eb or large F tuba for someone who wants to truly do everything… sacrilege, I know. A comp. Eb is probably the best of the best “do everything” horns, but they point the wrong way. Get over that and we’re in business.

I am personally more of an F tuba player. My F tuba also leaves my house much more frequently than my C tuba.

My pick of a great 3/4? The Rudy.

Sousaswag wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:08 pm sacrilege, I know. A comp. Eb is probably the best of the best “do everything” horns, but they point the wrong way. Get over that and we’re in business.

for
- the colleges which have viable student symphony orchestras... (no stats found, but - surely - hundreds and hundreds do NOT)
- ...which place the low brass stage left, rather than in the back row (whereas quite a few orchestras are now placing low brass in the back, (which means that no straight/player-tilted tuba bell is going to point anywhere outside the shell)
- the single players in each of those college orchestras who play in them - and who don't already own multiple tubas


...the issue was addressed two-thirds of a century ago.





bloke "only lightheartedly jerking your chain...but/and no, quite often front-action tubas end up pointing the wrong way as well"

My Holton BB-345... I think plays as (more?) nimbly and in tune than any 3/4 I've ever played. I do pull out the Besson 983 when I'm playing quintet music where most of the music would be very close partials on the BBb to make it more likely that the right notes come out with minimal practicing.

tubaing wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:39 pm My Holton BB-345... I think plays as (more?) nimbly and in tune than any 3/4 I've ever played. I do pull out the Besson 983 when I'm playing quintet music where most of the music would be very close partials on the BBb to make it more likely that the right notes come out with minimal practicing.

Those (that particular model) tends to offer a good legato, but most don't offer innate intonation as close to in-tune as does yours.
(I certainly hope the one I'm getting ready for sale offers that.)

I don't believe college (or high school) students need to be dealing with wonky-tuning-issues tubas...at least, not to buy with their own money.

I believe in having a range/home defense tuba.

A carry tuba.

And maybe a pocket tuba.

and - for boarding airliners - a plastic tuba

bloke wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 11:00 am Your good Arion copy is a handy tuba, but with nearly an 8/10 of an inch bore size and the only part of it being a bit on the small side being the bell throat, it pushes pretty hard towards being a medium large size tuba (rather than a small one)...and it is handy, because medium large tubas do a whole bunch of stuff just fine.

I have one and am quite happy. I sit between a 186CC and a Cerveny 601CC in my concert band. They are both much more accomplished as tuba players than I. But, I like the sound of my horn going along with those bigger horns. I contribute to the sound of the section and am happy with the effect. The 3/4 appears to be easier to pack around than one of the larger horns. I have a Toyota Corolla and the 3/4 case fits in the back seat with room on both sides. The other two players drive small SUVs and their horns fill up the entire rear area of the car. It's something that fits what I do and how I do it very well.

Having never played other than a peashooter Eb, I don't know for myself if an Eb would do "everything" for me but, physically, a medium/large Eb would be about the size of a BBb 3/4 and have all of the handling benefits of the smaller size.

.

windshieldbug wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:00 am My first tuba was a 184-4U CC Miraphone that I got in college.
Now it's the only horn I still use.

I played one of them in the middle 80's in college. It was a school horn, loved it and wish I had one now. As I get older my 4/4 BBb (VMI 3302), although I love playing it, seems to get heavier every year. A 3/4 tuba is in my future for sure.

I play a 3/4 BBb, but not very seriously, as I'm a trombone player. I think the smaller instruments have a place. I wouldn't want anything larger. I'm mainly in smaller groups, and I probably approach the tuba too aggressively (like a tbone player). If I were playing with a big orchestra or band, it would be different, but I only play tuba with little pickup bands, for church gigs, or maybe for quintet, and only when they can't find a real tuba player. I'd play an F except that BBb took almost zero effort to learn fingerings, and I'm not into trying to find "the right" F horn for me. Too much work, expense and mental activity.

I started playing tuba to avoid bass bone. Ergonomically it's just easier, believe it or not. I don't think bass bone makes a suitable sub for tuba most of the time. That little 3/4 makes plenty of racket for any group I play with.

The Conn 2-3-4-5J tubas feel "right" to trombone doublers, and require a good bit of getting used to (and "backing off", frankly) for tuba players to become accustomed to them.

windshieldbug wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 10:00 am My first tuba was a 184-4U CC Miraphone that I got in college.
Now it's the only horn I still use.

I am playing my 184 more and more because it's easy. Easy to play and easy to schlep around. I'm getting old!

The only tuba I ever bought new was a 184

unless you count having my Holton restored