TubaForum.net

https://www.jlandressbrass.com/shop/Low ... 223108.htm

In my experience the newer 'Fones (1970s-80s) with the 90° bend after the valves play a bit better than the older ones (1960s) with a dogleg after the valves.

I had one of the latter that belonged to Bill Kearney (Roger Bobo's classmate at Eastman). It was actually this exact horn:



You can see the dogleg after the valves in that pic. It played pretty well, and when it made its way to me it had a set of two or three removable leadpipes. But intonation was always a bit of a challenge with it, including a very flat 3rd and 5th partial. It was a bit better in that regard after the redesign, I think.

Dents Be Gone! wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:53 am Curious bell ferrule situation and I’m thinking that’s not a flat whole step 5th. It would be interesting to hear a first hand report.

“Not a buyer, just a looker…”

Definitely not a flat whole step. Kinda pricey, but they are great horns for sure.

For some reason the pictures aren't showing up. I assume it looks like a 184 though.

That's not the original bell. A Miraphone with S-links would have a wide and nicely engraved kranz.

This one has a very thin (modern Miraphone style) kranz.

And I'm guessing the ferrules are weird because either the new bell is a different size than the old one, or it was a new Miraphone bell from some other tuba besides a 184... And this was how it was made to fit.

I'm not sure any of this is bad! Every tuba has a story!

bort2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 1:36 pm That's not the original bell. A Miraphone with S-links would have a wide and nicely engraved kranz.

good catch - I don't see a triangle on the bell, either

Dents Be Gone! wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:53 am Curious bell ferrule situation and I’m thinking that’s not a flat whole step 5th. It would be interesting to hear a first hand report.

“Not a buyer, just a looker…”

What I'm nearly certain of is that what you're seeing there is a newer-style bell "stuck on top of" (with a secondary large ferrule) the CUT OFF bottom three-or-so inches of the ORIGINAL (surely: trashed) bell (as those were SMALLER at the small end and the LARGE end of the bottom bow was ALSO smaller).

I came up with a bit less-obvious way to deal with that issue, when installing a (nice/used) larger bottom end 184 bell onto an older (smaller bottom bow, and originally smaller bottom end of the bell) 184. ...fwiw, The nice/used bell I installed on an instrument (with that same problem to solve, which I solved in a less-noticeable way) was STILL old enough to feature the smaller 360mm rim diameter...If you read the specs of the for-sale tuba, they're listing the bell flare diameter as the current (larger) 380mm size, so that shop (or the consigner) surely bought a brand-new bell for that instrument.

The buyer of a tuba like that (with which I dealt with that issue) is a well-known subscriber and semi-active participant on this site. They will either show - or not show - a picture of their instrument.

...I was actually doing one of my "twin-spins" ( viewtopic.php?t=2378 ) at that time, @Doc, and was restoring TWO vintage 184 B-flats - one for a friend, and one for sale.

Here's the one that I fixed up for a friend (top left). He's a "Miraphile"...loves to buy Miraphone-anything, as long as repairable and cheap.
The bell was quite an ordeal, but I managed to bring it back from the deal.

One of the rotors was trashed, so I mailed off dimensions to Miraphone, and they made a replacement.
I guess I did a reasonably good job of measuring, because it only took about 10 - 20 to fit the replacement rotor into the instrument... ' lots of dimensions/measurements on those things.

...I also did a ton of work on that Miraphone-made knock-off of a Conn 72H, as well as (later) grafting a pair of Jinbao inline rotors onto it - so that one of his bass trombones (he also owns a "real" Elkhart 72H) would be two-rotor...and I brought that kaiser bariton back from the dead for him.
He head just hit a deer (on the way back from an orchestra concert)...I felt bad for him, and did a ton of work (while talking to him/consoling him) gratis...He picked it up for a "song", and it was pretty "smushy".

Dents Be Gone! wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:53 am Curious bell ferrule situation and I’m thinking that’s not a flat whole step 5th.

Right. Looks just like the flat 2 whole steps on my 188.

jtm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:38 pm

Dents Be Gone! wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:53 am Curious bell ferrule situation and I’m thinking that’s not a flat whole step 5th.

Right. Looks just like the flat 2 whole steps on my 188.

2-3 fifth ("two three fifth") as I like to call it.

Or "minor third" if yer one of them music theorists.

A music theorist would probably call it a major third.

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 7:10 pm

Dents Be Gone! wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:53 am Curious bell ferrule situation and I’m thinking that’s not a flat whole step 5th. It would be interesting to hear a first hand report.

“Not a buyer, just a looker…”

—-snip—-

The buyer of a tuba like that (with which I dealt with that issue) is a well-known subscriber and semi-active participant on this site. They will either show - or not show - a picture of their instrument.

We can probably get him to post a pic at some point today. I’m given to understand he’s been on the road and has a day full of chores.

Rick “ ” Denney

Rick Denney wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:20 am

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 7:10 pm

Dents Be Gone! wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:53 am Curious bell ferrule situation and I’m thinking that’s not a flat whole step 5th. It would be interesting to hear a first hand report.

“Not a buyer, just a looker…”

—-snip—-

The buyer of a tuba like that (with which I dealt with that issue) is a well-known subscriber and semi-active participant on this site. They will either show - or not show - a picture of their instrument.

We can probably get him to post a pic at some point today. I’m given to understand he’s been on the road and has a day full of chores.

Rick “ ” Denney

poor photography (back when my crapped-out iPhone - before I stepped up to a new-yet-ten-generations-old Android - was having camera auto-focusing issues - as well as auto-exposure issues...and I had to re-start the phone every time I really wanted it to take acceptable pics, but failed to do so, that time), but here's Ricks... I tried to come as close as I could to matching the original (interior parts - OK condition) lacquer on the exterior parts by mixing in some orange, green, and bronze translucent dyes to the clear lacquer.

topical:
My solution to the lower bell diameter discrepancy (earlier vs. later versions of this model) can be seen just below the thumb ring...and the bottom less-than-two-inches of the original bell is "buried" within.



@Rick Denney
The color hue match was "pretty good", but (curious...) Has the new lacquer (after - admittedly - not very long) yet begun to darken a bit more and come a bit closer to matching the hue of the interior/original lacquer ?

Dents Be Gone! wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:09 am Could have been worse.

[

jtm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:38 pm

Dents Be Gone! wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:53 am Curious bell ferrule situation and I’m thinking that’s not a flat whole step 5th.

Right. Looks just like the flat 2 whole steps on my 188.

I had an old Miraphone 186 from the 60's or 70's that a had a two whole-tone drop on the fifth. Messed with my mind doing the Snedecor. Ha.

Ace

Joe used a taller ferrule. Not something anyone would notice unless it was pointed out.





This one is, of course, a Bb.

And it’s not at all easy to tell that the bell was lacqueredat a different time than the body. It looks in close to perfect condition from “normal viewing distance,” but the color makes it look its age.

Rick “keeps it in a hard case” Denney