Weird water collecting
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Weird water collecting
I was at one of our local TubaChristmas events today and I noticed a weird problem with my little 3/4 Kanstul, which I bought specifically for things like this. After playing for a while I heard the dreaded gurgling and the playing got wonky. I figured out water was collecting either in or around the 2nd valve area. So no amount of playing with the two water keys (MTS and 3rd valve slide) made any difference. We were pack ed on stage like sardines in a can. So I couldn’t spin the horn. I finally had to pull the second valve slide and turn it upside down, at which time water came pouring out in copious amounts. The second valve slide is in a difficult place, in between the much longer 1st and 3rd slides and in a tight place. Messing with it caused me to miss half of one of the songs. Not that anyone noticed! Any ideas on how to deal with this issue would be appreciated.
King 2341 “new style”
Kanstul 902-3B
Conn Helleberg Standard 120- for the King.
Conn Helleberg 7B- for the Kanstul.
Looking for: minty Amati or Cerveny 681, Kanstul 902-4B
Kanstul 902-3B
Conn Helleberg Standard 120- for the King.
Conn Helleberg 7B- for the Kanstul.
Looking for: minty Amati or Cerveny 681, Kanstul 902-4B
- bloke
- Mid South Music
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Re: Weird water collecting
Front-action piston upper #1 and #2 slides/loops typically do not drain back into the main bugle, but (sadly) drain into those pistons' "circuit-feed" ports - rather than into the "on to the bugle" ports.
I put water keys on those upper bows, tilt the instrument to my left, open those water keys, and drain them.
Additionally, I use traditional lever-style water keys, to make certain that the water will actually drain, and drain quickly.
Since TubaChristmas (particularly, if outdoors) is in December, we (not the *"royal we", but y'all) should expect more and more-places-of water collection.
caveat:
Since Kanstul valve blocks are often repurposed top-action valve blocks, I may (??) be offering incorrect information, here.
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*I won't be going, because they decided to do it here: (Not only that, but parking is in a dark parking garage, with the free parking in the darkest most remote parts of the garage.)
https://www.actionnews5.com/story/38124 ... concourse/
I put water keys on those upper bows, tilt the instrument to my left, open those water keys, and drain them.
Additionally, I use traditional lever-style water keys, to make certain that the water will actually drain, and drain quickly.
Since TubaChristmas (particularly, if outdoors) is in December, we (not the *"royal we", but y'all) should expect more and more-places-of water collection.
caveat:
Since Kanstul valve blocks are often repurposed top-action valve blocks, I may (??) be offering incorrect information, here.
--------------------------------------------------------
*I won't be going, because they decided to do it here: (Not only that, but parking is in a dark parking garage, with the free parking in the darkest most remote parts of the garage.)
https://www.actionnews5.com/story/38124 ... concourse/
Last edited by bloke on Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- arpthark
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Re: Weird water collecting
Could you get your repairman to install a water key on that slide?
Blake
Bean Hill Brass
Bean Hill Brass
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Re: Weird water collecting
If you search for “Kanstul 904-3B” online, you can still see a picture of one. The first second and third valve slides all face up (a secondary 3rd valve slide and MTS face down) and the short 2nd slide is sandwiched between the much longer 1 and 3 in a hard to access spot. So any water key would be as difficult to access as the slide is. And I’m not sure exactly where a traditional water key could be located on that slide with the pull ring soldered right on the top center.
King 2341 “new style”
Kanstul 902-3B
Conn Helleberg Standard 120- for the King.
Conn Helleberg 7B- for the Kanstul.
Looking for: minty Amati or Cerveny 681, Kanstul 902-4B
Kanstul 902-3B
Conn Helleberg Standard 120- for the King.
Conn Helleberg 7B- for the Kanstul.
Looking for: minty Amati or Cerveny 681, Kanstul 902-4B
- Grumpikins
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Re: Weird water collecting
Try turning the horn on its side with the mp where you can blow. Press the valve and blow hard. Hopefully in this position you can push the water through to where it can be emptied. That's my only thought to remedy without fully rotating or modifying the horn.
Sent from my SM-S367VL using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-S367VL using Tapatalk
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- DonO. (Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:30 pm)
Meinl Weston 2145 CC
King Symphonic BBb circa 1936
Hopefully a pre WWII king Eb soon....
King Symphonic BBb circa 1936
Hopefully a pre WWII king Eb soon....
- arpthark
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Re: Weird water collecting
Is there room on the 2nd valve elbow?
Not finding any good pics of that angle online, but if this is accurate:
Then the elbow of the second slide (represented by the red line) could fit a water key approx. where the red arrow is pointing. Or would that be too hard to reach?
I put water keys on the 3rd and 4th valve slide elbows of my Eastman for a similar problem. I found I don't even really need the 4th valve one, but it does help.
Not finding any good pics of that angle online, but if this is accurate:
Then the elbow of the second slide (represented by the red line) could fit a water key approx. where the red arrow is pointing. Or would that be too hard to reach?
I put water keys on the 3rd and 4th valve slide elbows of my Eastman for a similar problem. I found I don't even really need the 4th valve one, but it does help.
Blake
Bean Hill Brass
Bean Hill Brass
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Re: Weird water collecting
Yes that is a fairly accurate representation of the horn. The braces in the picture looks little different from mine, but the valve cluster and slide locations are accurate. I will take a look and see how much clearance there is on that elbow. At this point I might say “maybe…we’ll see”. Thanks for the suggestion!arpthark wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:48 am Is there room on the 2nd valve elbow?
Not finding any good pics of that angle online, but if this is accurate:
Then the elbow of the second slide (represented by the red line) could fit a water key approx. where the red arrow is pointing. Or would that be too hard to reach?
I put water keys on the 3rd and 4th valve slide elbows of my Eastman for a similar problem. I found I don't even really need the 4th valve one, but it does help.
King 2341 “new style”
Kanstul 902-3B
Conn Helleberg Standard 120- for the King.
Conn Helleberg 7B- for the Kanstul.
Looking for: minty Amati or Cerveny 681, Kanstul 902-4B
Kanstul 902-3B
Conn Helleberg Standard 120- for the King.
Conn Helleberg 7B- for the Kanstul.
Looking for: minty Amati or Cerveny 681, Kanstul 902-4B
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I agree, guys. This is the way to go.
Last edited by Dents Be Gone! on Wed May 01, 2024 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- DonO. (Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:09 am)
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Re: Weird water collecting
Would the water key be installed on the top or bottom elbow? I can’t tell from the picture. Or does it make a difference? It looks like the bottom elbow has more room.DonO. wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:37 pmYes that is a fairly accurate representation of the horn. The braces in the picture looks little different from mine, but the valve cluster and slide locations are accurate. I will take a look and see how much clearance there is on that elbow. At this point I might say “maybe…we’ll see”. Thanks for the suggestion!arpthark wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:48 am Is there room on the 2nd valve elbow?
Not finding any good pics of that angle online, but if this is accurate:
Then the elbow of the second slide (represented by the red line) could fit a water key approx. where the red arrow is pointing. Or would that be too hard to reach?
I put water keys on the 3rd and 4th valve slide elbows of my Eastman for a similar problem. I found I don't even really need the 4th valve one, but it does help.
King 2341 “new style”
Kanstul 902-3B
Conn Helleberg Standard 120- for the King.
Conn Helleberg 7B- for the Kanstul.
Looking for: minty Amati or Cerveny 681, Kanstul 902-4B
Kanstul 902-3B
Conn Helleberg Standard 120- for the King.
Conn Helleberg 7B- for the Kanstul.
Looking for: minty Amati or Cerveny 681, Kanstul 902-4B