TubaForum.net

We see a bunch of this sort of thing posted here.

I'm NOT lecturing anyone...I'm not to that point (yet?), and I can't yet properly empathize...so (yup) SOME of these suggestions would well be off-base/misguided/ignorance-based.

If four of five pounds of difference actually would make a difference (because "four valves" is going to probably mean that 25 lbs. (35 w/bag) has become more than someone believes they can manage to carry (assuming that they do not own a 30 lb. tuba, as the overwhelming majority of tubas weigh under 25 lbs.) and they (very much wishing to continue to play) are look for any sort of burden relief...

- First, consider the possibility of PERSONAL weight loss (if one's own personal weight is more than it was when 25 or 30 years old). If carrying 25 lbs. (35 w/bag) is getting to be difficult, but carrying 20 lbs. (30 lbs. with bag) would actually be noticeably easier, maybe (??) lose the weight off of one's OWN body, and just KEEP the beloved tuba.

- If not, one of the very few "lightweight YET four-valve YET large-bore full-size YET commonly-found tubas" is a Cerveny 681 B-flat @ 17.5 lbs.

- Another "instead of selling a tuba an buying another one" idea would be to pull up to the venue door, drop off the tuba, park and walk back without having to carry the tuba all the way from the car.

- Another idea might be to take the tuba out of the bag (or just wrap it in a quilt) and carry the tuba (up on one's shoulder or what-have-you) - with NO bag nor case from the car to the venue. This automatically defines 8 - 10 lbs. less (bag) or 20 or more lbs less (case).

- If the problem is actually "air" (lung/breathing issues/etc.), maybe consider switching to euphonium. Yes, superstar euphonium players are expected to do all sorts of amazing tricks and stunts, but - generally (and again, other than some virtuoso euphonium band parts) euphonium is less work (and less air) than playing most tubas. Rather than playing a really small tuba with a small-tuba type of sound (as most really small tubas end up weighing as much as the Cerveny model listed at the top) with a community band, maybe just buy a euphonium, practice at home, and - eventually - transition over into the euphonium section. If some parts are too high or too fast, just count those measures and then come back in.

bloke "I know NOTHING, but note that I DO sell tubas, and this whole post is about AVOID BUYING a tuba."

My packer 379B sounds like a fullsized tuba, despite it being only 19#

The packer 179B has to be lighter than that

both have 4 valves, but if I had to, I could manage with a small three valve tuba like a yamaha 103 that had either a 1st valve or 3rd valve slide that could be pulled when needed

this one is currently available brand new (unlike the yamaha) and looks to have a nice pull on both of those valves
https://www.eastmanwinds.com/ebb234

the KIng 1135 would also be an option, though I would be hard pressed to say it's a better tuba than the eastman, even though it sells for much more.

The reality of most of those is that you just don't have much of a weight advantage with anything. It's not like you can find something that weighs only 30% of another one. They're all mostly like 4/5 of the weight of another one.

It's interesting that Packer, Eastman and king don't list weights for their 3/4 sized tubas

I rarely see tuba overall lengths (heights) or weights mentioned.

Packer lists then on all of their tubas, except for the 179b. The 079 is 14 pounds so I would expect the Eastman to be similar. I know the Yamaha 103 is incredibly light, probably in the 13# range

I want to say one word to you; just one word. Are you listening?

"Plastics."

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At 72, having knees and shoulders replaced, fighting some severe osteoarthritis, and Covid having done a number on my lungs, I can say "yes", the lighter weight (5 lbs.?), lesser bulk, and smaller bore of my Mirafone 184 does make a big difference in getting from here to there, as well as in playing. My 92-year-old tuba playing friend is getting noticeably shorter of breath lately, too.

Five years ago, I would have absolutely agreed with all your points, but in reality, when I turned 70, it was like someone reached inside me and flipped some switch to the OFF position. Still playing and doing ok, but getting frustrated at how difficult some things that used to be easy have become. and it takes more practice now to stay even. That said, I will keep playing as long as this body lets me. I've been playing a lot of euphonium (2nd parts) this Christmas season, due to the unreliability of some of our ensemble members, and it seems to make more efficient use of air (and the rolling case helps). But I am no euphonium player, and the 184 makes me very happy.

I'm not interested in arguing. I just want to say that this little 3v eb tuba I've been fixing up is quite a bit smaller and lighter than my other tubas. It's really fun to play. I find myself picking it up and playing for 5 or 10 min quite often because of the size. It's just more accessible. And it's not a euph.

Also, a friend of mine has a french c tuba which I at first confused as a euph. It has a full tuba range. Dont know about the weight. It does suffer in tuba sound, but is capable.

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@tofu

Those are good points. and - now that you've made them - rather than people who really don't understand the problem listing the smallest tubas and all that jazz, how about the ones that might most appeal to these sorts of people...(??) Many people seem (??) really nonplussed by Cerveny 681 (yet can become quite excited about brand new shiny 2,000 buck Chinese tubas selling for $5000), but - to me - they seem like good working tubas that don't weigh as much. Are thin wall 17.5 lb. Cerveny tubas a bad choice for this type of person? again: I can't make any money off of them 'cuz I don't sell them and usually they sell for more on eBay then I want to pay - unless they're all beat up - and then I don't want to fix them up, so (again) it's not as if I'm pushing something that I sell...(??)

Some people respond in emotional/sympathetic ways to (geriatric?) Issues/problems such as this, but I tend to respond to more of a "what can these types of people specifically do?" type of way. Can we figure out what makes certain sizes, shapes, weights, and bore sizes the most practical for this type of player? It's okay to feel sorry for someone who's getting old and closer to the end of their life, but in doing so all we're doing is feeling sorry for ourselves, because that's happening to everyone. Is it more productive to try to come up with viable workarounds until that day or days come(s)?

Jerry's model 184 is still a .709" bore - as an example (fairly large bore), but something tells me that he would pick that over a .687" bore detachable bell King...(yes, Jerry?)

... so is it bore size? Is it how many cubic feet of water a tuba holds in toto? How much a tuba weighs? how easily a tuba balances when playing it? Could it even be mouthpiece throat opening, and how small a mouthpipe starts leading into a bunch of different sizes of tubas... more of some of these and less of the others?

Ya know...
My F cimbasso has a .689" bore, the mouthpipe bore tapers down to just under a half an inch, the mouthpiece that I use with it might feature a throat opening that is only barely over a quarter of an inch - or might even be less, and I can play that thing easily from below the range of the 88 key piano up to what some people like to refer to as "double high" B-flat and even about three or four pitches above that, and all with reasonable ease and not too much exertion. Of course, I don't have to do too much work holding it up, because I have two floor pegs with which it rests on the floor. It's also pretty darn easy to play without much exertion, and that includes obnoxiously loud to whispery soft...so is there some sort of >TUBA< that's kind of like that...or am I off base in considering playing characteristics and the holding/balancing of an instrument?

I have a pretty strong suspicion that (naming a specific make and model) a Willson 3100 B-flat tuba is the antithesis of what these sorts of people are seeking, so what makes and models represent good examples of the "antithesis of the antithesis"?

Maybe, they're really not looking for a Yamaha 621 or some sort of clone (none of which put out a tremendous amount of sound in proportion to effort). Maybe, that's not the right tack...(??)

I'm sort of trying to prompt a real discussion of this, because so many individuals jump into this forum and ask about stuff like this, and no one seems to have an answer that seems to make much sense, at least - not to me...and no. no one had better accuse me of G-d "virtue-signaling".

I guess I'm still stubbornly trying to get better sound, better technique, and push my limits. I do have a good friend who is having lots of trouble at 83, with 94 pound 74 year old me having to, sometimes, put his tuba in the case for him and carry it to the car. But to bloke's point -- he could use to drop 60 pounds and he would not be skinny. His legs would work a whole lot better then, but I'm pretty sure he's not going to do that.
My problem is stamina; pretty severe mitochondrial damage from cipro and flagyl. Immeasurably less than what I used to be able to do, and there is no cure for this. I wish I could just drop some pounds because i would. Meanwhile, we'll see if I have to stick with the Star or not.

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LeMark wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 3:46 pm My packer 379B sounds like a fullsized tuba, despite it being only 19#.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

donn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 5:16 pm I want to say one word to you; just one word. Are you listening?

"Plastics."

No, try carbon fiber. Expensive? Yes! But it's lighter than the average Bremelo.

What's better about carbon fiber - for a tuba body - and what production tuba is made from it?

The things the put me off about plastics are origin (China) and durability (not.) Never played one, but reports of musical output are at worst mixed.

I'm sure carbon fiber is more robust in some ways, but does that add up to a tuba that will hold up to regular use like a brass one would? Is it easy enough to repair?

I think the title should read " I'm getting older, and looking for a lighter tuba, but I still want four valves"....

M-I-R-A-F-O-N-E 186....

Carbon fiber comes unglued.