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@splat Got around to taking the photos and upload them.



From Left to right. Approximately smallest on the left to largest to the right.

Hammond Design 13M Trombone Mouthpiece with large stem blank --- Only included to demonstrate that my Low Pitch Salvation Army Tuba has a Euphonium medium shank instead of a small tuba shank.

Wooden Tuba Mouthpiece from etsy.com

2-piece Steel Kelly X-SMALL with Small tuba shank

Vincet Bach 22 American Shank

Denis Wick 2 Heritage ie Small tuba shank

Alan Baer MMVI Euro shank

Laskey 30H American shank

2-piece Steel Kellyberg with Euro shank

Perantucci 48 Mouthpiece, should be Euro shank by default

1-piece Kelly XXL American shank




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King Sousaphone bit photos

Wooden Tuba Mouthpiece from etsy.com


2-piece Steel Kelly X-SMALL with Small tuba shank


Vincet Bach 22 American Shank


Denis Wick 2 Heritage ie Small tuba shank


Alan Baer MMVI Euro shank


Laskey 30H American shank


2-piece Steel Kellyberg with Euro shank


Perantucci 48 Mouthpiece, should be Euro shank by default


1-piece Kelly XXL American shank


All mouthpieces with the sousaphone bit. I combined the images with Krita.


All mouthpieces with the sousaphone bit. I combined the images with Krita. Opacity adjusted to show how deep they go.


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Conn 3J CC shank photos. I decided to try to hold the mouthpieces from the outside to show how deep they might be too.

Wooden Tuba Mouthpiece from etsy.com




2-piece Steel Kelly X-SMALL with Small tuba shank



Vincet Bach 22 American Shank



Denis Wick 2 Heritage ie Small tuba shank



Alan Baer MMVI Euro shank



Laskey 30H American shank



2-piece Steel Kellyberg with Euro shank



Perantucci 48 Mouthpiece, should be Euro shank by default



1-piece Kelly XXL American shank



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Salvation Army Low Pitch Eb tuba shank photos. Held the mouthpieces from the outside to show how deep they might be too. This tuba has a Euphonium medium shank instead of a small tuba shank.

Hammond Design 13M Trombone Mouthpiece with large stem blank



2-piece Steel Kelly X-SMALL with Small tuba shank



Denis Wick 2 Heritage ie Small tuba shank



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King 1241 BBb shank photos. I didn't hold the mouthpieces outside like the other horns seeing as it a little longer or the mouthpieces go deeper than the Conn 3j's receiver would. And I was tired of taking pictures too,

Wooden Tuba Mouthpiece from etsy.com


2-piece Steel Kelly X-SMALL with Small tuba shank


Vincet Bach 22 American Shank


Denis Wick 2 Heritage ie Small tuba shank
I decided not to take a photo for whatever reason. Maybe I'll edit this post and add it.

Alan Baer MMVI Euro shank


Laskey 30H American shank


2-piece Steel Kellyberg with Euro shank


Perantucci 48 Mouthpiece, should be Euro shank by default


1-piece Kelly XXL American shank



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Kelly 2-piece steel photo

Commend ya for a thorough job. Any general sense of how the depth a mouthpiece fits in a receiver affects how a mouthpiece/tuba plays?

With my (now sold) Besson Eb the insertion depth had a great effect. When I bought a Blokepiece Imperial Joe convinced me to try a british shank. I got it with british and standard shank for not knowing if the smaller shank would fit. Standard shank sat the usual way 2/3 in the receiver, the british shank went in to the last ca 1mm. With the smaller shank I could play much louder! When I switched tuba to the Eastman 853 I tried around with this again but with no effect at all

humBell wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:48 am Commend ya for a thorough job. Any general sense of how the depth a mouthpiece fits in a receiver affects how a mouthpiece/tuba plays?

Hmmm... I haven't experimented tooo much with the mouthpieces that I can adjust the length via tape, ie the Wick 2 and the Kelly's with the small shank attached. Having the mouthpieces inserted deeper does in fact raise the pitch as a whole.

...Although, the Conn 3j CC is not mine and I am using the smaller shank mouthpieces to force the pitch to go up. But from F in the staff to Bb right above the Bass clef staff the tuba is sharp. Well the Bb and A in the staff are also sharp but that's a different phenomenon. Still, even with the smaller shanks inserted deeper than say an American mouthpiece is supposed to go, the tuba is still flat! . At least with some lipping, small shank inserted deeply, and warm enough temperature the tuba can be coaxed to play A=440. This is of course ignoring the fact that my house is usually set to a cold temperature. But the 3j is nowhere near as flat as the SA Eb tuba is. If I personally owned the 3j, I'd have it cut. That will then allow me to use the Euro shank for the Kellyberg, with the larger back-bore it would make F to Bb more manageable, at least I think it would...

But to answer the question, I actually prefer the mouthpieces going in deeper. The tubas seem to respond better in my opinion, well at least the ones with American shanks or King sousaphones seem too. Between the Euro and the Small shanks for the Kelly, I think I prefer the small one most of the time. The small shank consequently has a smaller back-bore since it needs to fit into a smaller receiver. Adds a bit more focus and maaaybe brightness to the sound. But only a slight difference, if you are listening for it. Although I've been trying to read and understand about mouthpieces as much as I can these past few months. I haven't observed any huge intonation discrepancies, other than what I wrote above. I'll have to play the King BBb since that tuba can be played, at least the bugle, can be played up to pitch even when it's cold. To see if the tuner has any differences on certain notes or combinations. Although, the Kelly XXL does flatten the pitch as a whole compared to the other mouthpieces... maybe it is a little too big for me to handle. But I bought the XXL as one of those Dr. Young like tuba mouthpiece of sorts and in theory should be more usable than the Dr. Young ones...

When I get the B&S 4097 CC and return the Conn 3j CC back to the University I am borrowing it from, I'll see what mouthpieces I may get rid of. I'll probable keep the 2-piece Kelly's due to their modularity. I'll include photos with that tubas receiver too.

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Snake Charmer wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:11 am With the smaller shank I could play much louder! When I switched tuba to the Eastman 853 I tried around with this again but with no effect at all

I never did listen enough to notice if I played louder or not depending how deep the mouthpiece is in the tuba... Another thing I need to pay more attention to see if I notice any difference.

The difference in volume was quite remarkable. I never noticed anything like this on any other horn/mouthpiece combo before or after. And it was not only my own feeling, my wife was in the opposite end of our house (ca 15m and a some corners away!) when I tried the new mps out of the box and compared them with those I used before. When I came back to her she said "one of them is much louder"

.

Fantastic post!

Sent from my SM-S367VL using Tapatalk

peterbas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 4:28 am Great job, but would it be possible to put a mark on the mouthpieces where the throat starts?

I could certainly try. It'll take me awhile. It probably won't be super accurate since I'll be trying to line things up with my fingers and eyes.

Although, I thought about using FreeCad, and setting something in the picture as a scale to show how deep the mouthpieces go into the tubas. Of course the cameras lense is going to warp the image a little and distance can make a difference too. But it might work as another way to measure stuff without calipers.

I may, if I don't forget and the venders at the Army Conference don't get mad at me, take a photo of the Miraphone 1291 BBb first valve port or slide next to a coin. Just to see if infact the 0.835 bore is correct.

After messing with the image scaling with FreeCad, I did not realize how much difference perspectives can make. So I'll just share the photos of the inside shape of the mouthpieces and the throats location mmmmmmiiiiiiggggghhhhtttt be on the mouthpiece itself. Super inaccurate seeing as I was guessing where the throats would be with my fingers.

I also need to do an actual test trial to see if a tuba does play louder with a mouthpiece that is more deeply inserted. I tried for a tiny bit and I think the Conn 3j may have been a little louder? Although I think the Kelly X-Small is louder than the others. But that probably has to do with the fact there is more higher overtones and less of the fundamental. At least I think that is the case. Because I did not notice a huge difference in sound between the Kelly X-Small, Laskey 30h and the Kellyberg for the brief seconds that I tried it out with my computers built in microphone. I'll try again later to be more consistent.

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Inside the mouthpiece photos

Wooden Tuba Mouthpiece from etsy.com


2-piece Steel Kelly X-SMALL


Vincet Bach 22 American Shank


Denis Wick 2 Heritage ie Small tuba shank


Alan Baer MMVI Euro shank


Laskey 30H American shank


2-piece Steel Kellyberg


Perantucci 48 Mouthpiece, should be Euro shank by default


1-piece Kelly XXL American shank


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Outside Photos and throat area marked with a black dot from a fountain pen

Without Flash


With Flash

What have seemed to have become accepted sizes known as standard and euro, are about a fourth of an inch apart - insertion-wise, and some makes (that either still do or did in the past) made shanks that were sort of halfway in between. Of course, those were about an eighth of an inch between either of those sizes. In the past, Miraphone, Schilke, and PT were sort of halfway between. If you take the small shank size - which tends to start off at about a half an inch or so on the outside of the small end, the four sizes that I've now mentioned tend to insert in roughly 1/8 inch in increments.

People who are accustomed to older style mouthpieces with shorter portions of their back bores exposed in shanks (such as Bach) will swear that some of newer mouthpieces - which tend to feature longer exposed tapers - do not insert into their receivers as far, even though they actually do.

The insertion depth of a mouthpiece on an actual small tuba shank, unlike my Salvation Army tuba. This post/thread is for those in the future are not sure if they bought a tuba with a small shank, they can be pointed to this thread.

Denis Wick 2 "Heritage" in a Besson F 3+1 tuba. It has a Small tuba shank.



2 piece steel Kelly mouthpiece, contour weight, with Small tuba shank



2 piece steel Kelly mouthpiece, contour weight, with Euro tuba shank

That's just fine, but useful information would be marking on the outside (either on the digital picture, or on the actual receiver - with a felt tipped pen) where the choke point is inside the receiver...

ie. where the downward taper of the receiver ends, and where the outward taper of the mouthpipe tube begins.

Even more useful would be the actual i.d. at that point, as most all mouthpieces are tapered using the Jarno taper (or the nearly-exactly-the-same Morse #3 taper), simply by measuring the o.d. at the tail end of any tuba mouthpiece.

Knowing that (the measurement from that point to the end of the receiver) could demonstrate (with most ANY make/model of mouthpiece) how someone's mouthpiece interfaces with those vintage Besson small/British shank receivers (rather than only "if you own a small-shank Wick", or "if you own a small shank Giddings").

Finding that place (assuming the tool doesn't fall apart before you even manage to get it out of the box), can be done with a (c. thirty bucks) Chinese inside micrometer.

Tools and arithmetic can be tricky (and I'm no wiz), but they can also be useful, and can answer questions with remarkable specificity.