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Got this Holton euphonium for a very good price. It's tiny for a euph, but it still sounds like a euph rather than a baritone, so I'm pretty sure that's what it is.

Thought this horn would be a fun addition to my polka gigs, and looks very similar to the horn Willi Grafeneder plays in Lechner Buam.

I don't know the model name, and the Holton Loyalist is nowhere near as complete as the Conn loyalist, so all I'm pulling up is eBay listings and the nuked threads over at the other forum.

It just has a bad solder joint making playing difficult, and I can't get the bell to stay put in any angle other than the one in the picture. Other than that, the horn is in surprisingly great condition.

That looks a LOT like one that is recently being played in the brass band here -- four valves, detachable front bell. His appears to have what from a distance look like "tightening screws." He's from the UK and I haven't had a chance to talk to him yet or see it up close. His is lacquer, currently on the 2nd baritone part.

Were it mine and I didn't have to detach the bell to get it in the case, a little bit of discreetly placed gorilla tape would keep the bell where I wanted it.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:17 am That looks a LOT like one that is recently being played in the brass band here -- four valves, detachable front bell. His appears to have what from a distance look like "tightening screws." He's from the UK and I haven't had a chance to talk to him yet or see it up close. His is lacquer, currently on the 2nd baritone part.

Yeah, seems this style of instrument is pretty common in oberkrainer/blasmusik bands in Europe. Definitely reminds me of the old junior high instrument I had, but with a fourth valve. This one has a surprisingly rich tone, considering the leadpipe really isn't attached at the moment.

Mary Ann wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:17 am Were it mine and I didn't have to detach the bell to get it in the case, a little bit of discreetly placed gorilla tape would keep the bell where I wanted it.

Not sure it would help. Looks like the socket has holes drilled in for extra hold on the set screws. When I tried to rotate it it just started angling outward, which I think the tape might just delay the inevitable. Also, there's only two screws on this--that's a new one.

I feel like @bloke would have some answers, too!

Looks like a Leonard Falcone model. I had one with the upright bell.

tubaing wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 10:38 am Looks like a Leonard Falcone model. I had one with the upright bell.

Yes, certainly looks like a detachable bell version of the Holton B101 Falcone Model:

arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 10:54 am

tubaing wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 10:38 am Looks like a Leonard Falcone model. I had one with the upright bell.

Yes, certainly looks like a detachable bell version of the Holton B101 Falcone Model:

Oh! I don't know why, but I was thinking the Falcone model was a Conn. I'd love to find an upright bell option for this horn, too, if possible.

I actually did a search for "Holton B101," and it brought me here:

https://redevelop.drobnakbrass.com/conc ... euphoniums

The only bell-front description is the model 85 on that site, and it, of course, doesn't have a picture. So it may or may not be the model 85.

I'm kinda guessing the best description I'll really get of this horn is "Holton small euphonium." Dave Werden guessed that it's probably a .560 bore, and that this is very similar, if not identical, specs to the German "baritons" they use in blasmusik, which are very likely considered euphoniums in the states.



Perfect as an alternative to tuba in my polka gigs, but I might not be hired to play the Wilby with this horn.

BopEuph wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 1:55 pm but I 99.9% of euphonium players might not be hired to play the Wilby with this horn.

Fixed that for ya!

Got that right!

It's why my major was changed to jazz bass studies. A freelance euphonium player isn't a very decent prospect!

Heh. I realized I stepped on your joke, but I couldn't resist. Cool horn! Hope you get it fixed up; keep us updated.

wow !

...and - all this time - I thought Illya Kuryakin was a bassoonist...

arpthark wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 2:13 pm Heh. I realized I stepped on your joke, but I couldn't resist. Cool horn! Hope you get it fixed up; keep us updated.

It's currently in very capable hands. He's already caught one or two other things I didn't, especially since it really isn't playable to figure out those issues.

Just about to buy a better mouthpiece than a 6.5al to go with it.

BopEuph wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:08 pmJust about to buy a better mouthpiece than a 6.5al to go with it.

I like the Wick Ultra SM6U. It comes in the trombone/BBBBaritone/American Baritone horn shank. It is essentially a deeper version of a 6 1/2 AL. That little bit of extra cup depth keeps it from going grainy in the low register, gives a broad, round tone in the middle, and you can get enough air through it to be secure in the upper register. https://www.deniswick.com/product/steve ... 5087890625

iiipopes wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:45 pm

BopEuph wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:08 pmJust about to buy a better mouthpiece than a 6.5al to go with it.

I like the Wick Ultra SM6U. It comes in the trombone/BBBBaritone/American Baritone horn shank. It is essentially a deeper version of a 6 1/2 AL. That little bit of extra cup depth keeps it from going grainy in the low register, gives a broad, round tone in the middle, and you can get enough air through it to be secure in the upper register. https://www.deniswick.com/product/steve ... 5087890625

I actually found a used SM4 for a good price to go with it. It's what I used to play with my 2900, and hope it's a good pairing with this horn.

It's marketed as a "baritone" mouthpiece on the Dennis Wick site, but I assume all the specs besides the shank size are the same. It certainly looks like it when comparing in the descriptions.

I wonder how many boutique small trombone mouthpieces are basically exactly like three or four sizes of Bach mouthpieces... maybe with a drill bit run through the throat or something like that.

bloke wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:50 pm I wonder how many boutique small trombone mouthpieces are basically exactly like three or four sizes of Bach mouthpieces... maybe with a drill bit run through the throat or something like that.

Wouldn't be surprised. I'm actually not much of an equipment junkie...I just know the 6.5 or the 12C aren't great for the low range for me. I usually find the first "professional" grade mouthpiece I can for a great deal, and stick with that. Each mouthpiece has their own characteristics, maybe, but I think it's up to the player to know those characteristics and work with or around them.

Mostly, having "good" mouthpieces is as much to satisfy others as it is me, so that I don't have to deal with people talking crap on any level that makes one seem amateurish. And there's lots of that in my town, which sucks.

I use a really small mouthpiece when I play tailgate on dixieland jobs - particularly when they last multiple sets, because I'm not playing in the low range (to avoid stepping over the bass player) and I'm sort of playing in the alto range (because the trumpet player is playing fairly high to be heard and the clarinet player is playing even higher to be heard). Since I don't practice playing fairly high pitch tailgate trombone licks everyday, I use something really small - so I can make it through a gig. I think playing things that fit and harmonize nicely is more important in that sort of venue/ensemble as opposed to a "beautiful broad sonorous tone"...
...but you're right, when I use something that's even smaller than a 12C, the low range isn't particularly accessible.. but I'm not really trying to access it.

Exactly! I know when I started playing tuba around here 10 years ago, I felt the other guys were kinda scoffing at my equipment, and kept telling me that if I want to play gigs, I need something better.

I have something "better" now, but my 12J is such a perfect horn to play in anything that's not an orchestra. And it's such a nimble instrument! I did move on from my Bach 18 to more look "the part," And it was a PT-48 that I played until the finish wore off. Now I play an RT-88 after some great conversations with Bob Tucci...but the Kanstul has a Blokepiece.

BopEuph wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:52 pmIt's marketed as a "baritone" mouthpiece on the Dennis Wick site, but I assume all the specs besides the shank size are the same. It certainly looks like it when comparing in the descriptions.

Yes. British Brass Band Baritone. The same receiver and shank size as tenor trombone and American baritone.