TubaForum.net

Jupiter?

https://jimlaabsmusicstore.com/store/sc ... io-series/

Packer?

https://jimlaabsmusicstore.com/store/sc ... tion-tuba/

Wait a minute....

What are you suggesting?

MShores wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:16 pm Packer?

Packer is also not known for its original designs. Keep digging.

Yes but I guess I wasn’t aware that tubas coming from these factories were being “stenciled.”

Specifically that Jupiter because I’ve taken a recent interest in that model based on some favorable reviews.

I don't believe the Jupiter is a stencil or badge engineered like a car would be. It is a copy. At least I assume Jupiter makes their own stuff in their own factory.

It is similar to how say there is a lot of Miraphone, B&S, Hirsbrunner, Yamaha copies/clones in the market at the moment.

I do like the Jupiter BBb Jupiter JTU1110, also known as the 582 in the past. I find the sound to be bland but otherwise a nice playing tuba. If the Schiller copy is as good as the original, then it should be a very nice tuba. Although, even more so with Schiller, try before you buy if possible.

Packers tend to cost more but they made better. And as a result also play better, at least in my experience. But most of the John Packer tubas are technically still copies, but they are very good ones. At least with 377 Eb and the JP379B Bb, one "B" in the model name (why would name a model like that? The Meinl Weston 25 copy has two "B's" in the name? ), aka the "3/4" one, surpass the tubas they are based on.

Best of luck!

Please, do yourself a favor and buy a Jupiter or Packer if that's what you really want. My experience with Laabs is that Schiller instruments are sold as-is with no warranty. You will be SOL, as I have been, if there's a problem.

WC8KCY wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:29 pm Please, do yourself a favor and buy a Jupiter or Packer if that's what you really want. My experience with Laabs is that Schiller instruments are sold as-is with no warranty. You will be SOL, as I have been, if there's a problem.

I hope there are people who have been thoroughly pleased with their Schiller tubas, but ... has anyone heard of these people?

jtm wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:47 pm

WC8KCY wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:29 pm Please, do yourself a favor and buy a Jupiter or Packer if that's what you really want. My experience with Laabs is that Schiller instruments are sold as-is with no warranty. You will be SOL, as I have been, if there's a problem.

I hope there are people who have been thoroughly pleased with their Schiller tubas, but ... has anyone heard of these people?

I have owned two Schiller instruments: a compensating 19" bell Eb, and a compensating euphonium.

The Eb was okay, but the euph was great.

That said, I bought them both used from very reputable tuba players and didn't have to deal with the uncertainty of buying a new instrument and dealing with whatever issues may be there.

(That's what ended up happening with my Yamaclone F tuba anyway, which I bought directly from China and had to troubleshoot with my repairman.)

So the Jupiter style tuba is a Chinese copy of a tuba that’s made in Taiwan?

MShores wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:13 am So the Jupiter style tuba is a Chinese copy of a tuba that’s made in Taiwan?

As far as I am aware, yes

The back shot of the Jupi-clone did not appear to have the same tube routing as an OG Jupiter.

The small one may-or-may-not be from the same factory as JP.
I KNOW that there are - at least - TWO versions of this made in different places in China.

regardless...

I've stated several times that I've played around with ordering AROUND JP (to save a few hundred dollars).

(This is the same as I've put forth before, so forgive me...and - YET - it's the truth)...

I've found that the build quality of the INDIVIDUAL valve BLOCKS and individual SINGLE SETS (inside/outside) of slide tubing fit as nicely, but EVERYTHING ELSE (ie. the assembly) is careless - compared to JP standards imposed on the factory.

Further, as JP manages to upgrade to molded latch cases (one model at a time) the "regular" factory stuff (often) stays in the zipper cases (and I tend to believe .

I like the USA warehousing, and the (included in dealer price) shipping to USA destinations.

As someone who also performs, repairs, sells used instruments, sells mouthpieces, and does other stuff as well (such as "my life")...I just don't need to deal with "issues" (simply to save myself a few hundred bucks of wholesale cost).

I ALSO find it VERY distasteful to LIE and BULLSH!T customers who find issues with products, and - therefore - always tend to agree with the customer's side (ie. the side which is the issue/complaint)...so it's important to me to be able to DROP-SHIP new instruments WITHOUT having to have them sent here FIRST, cracking the cartons open, pulling them out, checking for bullsh!t, having to stop and REPAIR bullsh!t, repacking them, and then (paying for) RE-shipping them (on to the customers). This is why I pay JP their (yes: re-wholesaler) prices, and choose to not buy straight from the factory.

When consumers buy factory-direct or from retailers who buy the "as they are" instruments from the factory, I have NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER with that. I believe EVERYONE should buy what they choose to buy.
me...??
I even take PERSONAL risks/crapshoots when buying stuff for MYSELF (and QUITE OFTEN), but I just don't have the TIME to do that when selling products to OTHERS.

in summary:
- I don't like dealing with crap.
- I am not willing to bullsh!t customers (when things aren't as they should be).

jtm wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:47 pm

WC8KCY wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:29 pm Please, do yourself a favor and buy a Jupiter or Packer if that's what you really want. My experience with Laabs is that Schiller instruments are sold as-is with no warranty. You will be SOL, as I have been, if there's a problem.

I hope there are people who have been thoroughly pleased with their Schiller tubas, but ... has anyone heard of these people?

Yes, and I am one of the persons totally satisfied with the Schiller 410 CC tuba. I am not easily pleased when selecting a tuba. Prior to my purchase of the 410 from Laabs I had owned four Miraphone 186's (I buy and sell instruments) and loved them all. When I played the 410, I thought it was equal to or better than any of my Miraphone 186's in terms of sound, valve action, alignment of slides, and overall build quality including lacquer finish.
ACE

@Ace, when did you buy your 410?

I've owned maybe 3 or 4 of these over the years and in my experience, the rotary valve linkage has consistently been bad-to-mediocre.

Disassembling my last one (a 2017-ish 'Dillon' branded one), the side of the rotor body was so sharply machined that it left a big slice in my finger.

That said, it has the highest "CC tuba for the money" ratio of any instrument I've come across (all bought used for between $1,000-1,500). Fantastic intonation and honestly the slide fitment and valves (besides linkage) were pretty good, with a noticeable bump in quality throughout the 2010s decade.

arpthark wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:13 pm (snip)
I've owned maybe 3 or 4 of these over the years and in my experience, the rotary valve linkage has consistently been bad-to-mediocre.
(snip)

I always tell people my 410 came with it's own percussion section. I really don't understand why anyone would make a decent tuba then fit them with ball linkages that aren't much stouter than what you would find on an RC airplane.