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Now that I realized that my tuner was screwy and was giving me false readings, I decided to go ahead and publish the unboxing video I filmed the day I got it

There are a couple notes that are 20 cents low, but when the the tuner tells you they are 45 cents flat, it messes with your confidence in your own ears

Thinking of making a change in the 1st valve loop to correct those two notes

Enjoy!

Interesting -- I didn't hear any funny intonation with this demo. I guess that's a lesson to trust your ears more than some mechanical device!!! And I'm really glad it turned out to be the tuner and not the tuba.

The worst notes are D in the middle of the staff and the D above

The one in the middle is fine fingered 1-2, and the one above is close but still flat.

The D in the playing range is not an issue with King.

The D in the playing range is an issue with a formidable number of pricey European-made models.

A couple of Chinese-made brand names receive a tremendous amount of hype (ok...and yet another - the one with the Japanese name), but - working on all sorts of stuff all the time - I'm not impressed (including in comparison to current C-S build quality).

Most people are comparing current C-S build quality (rather than comparing it to Chinese knockoffs) to legacy versions of the same models built in the 1960's, and I'm not sure that's completely fair.

How many people would (were it possible) pick from (a myriad of models of) currently-made USA made vehicles (particularly-but-certainly-not-exclusively many of these currently-made pickup trucks - with "nightmare" drive trains...struggling to deal with fascistic mpg/emissions dictates), were it that (somehow, magically) a myriad of brand-new 1960's vehicles were somehow available for purchase?

How many would (were there a choice) pick 2020 lumber over 1960 lumber?

bloke "I sell neither King nor Eastman - other than used, and neither in this specific size range - as we are critiquing instruments, here - would be my personal instrument of choice, and - to be fair, neither attempts to come anywhere close to meeting my personal standards, and are both (ref: a 1937-founded German "good enough for the masses" factory) "volksinstrumente...and - as taxpayers deserve so very much more respect/consideration - schools should only be purchasing 3-valve versions, were both offered as 3-valve versions."

blokeswagen: (an instrument in this size range, built to my standards)

There still are some squirrelly things up above the staff, but when Mark and I were comparing notes, I found them to be rather mouthpiece-sensitive in that range. Or, it's me that's mouthpiece-sensitive in that range.

Pulling mine out to do that note-comparing meant that the Hirsbrunner is going to take a break for the next concert cycle of the group I'm in. I am missing most rehearsals because of work travel, and there will be two other players in the section who are pro-quality (one of whom would need no introduction), so I can relax and just be a low-grade section player. That means I don't need a lot of projection but I do need a forgiving nature.

The Eastman has a great sound, but it does not have the raw power of a really big tuba, like Bloke's Miraphone 498, Mark's Cerveny 601, or either my Holton or my Hirsbrunner HBS193. And I found it to have too much breadth for my quintet, whose trombone player uses a vintage Conn straight tenor. But for a sound with breadth, it has superb clarity in a large ensemble. And it's easy to play, meaning that it helps cover me when I've been on the road instead of practicing.

In terms of build quality, I disagree with Joe that Mark is comparing modern Kings to vintage Kings from their true heyday. I think he's comparing modern Kings to currently available alternatives, of which this Eastman is one. We had a guy in the band (who also played in a National Guard band) who had a 2341, and it was excellent. I don't recall anything about it--either playing or studying the workmanship--that would suggest it's better, but it was good. Another guy in the band ordered one from a local retailer, and it was frankly a disaster with problems of severity similar to Mark's description, including a dead sound. That one should never have been allowed out the factory door, or, if it was shipping damage, past the retailer. They warranted it and the replacement was better.

The Eastman folks received advice from the same acknowledged expert who had given advice to Conn on the new-style 2341. In his words, "Eastman actually did what I told them they needed to do."

On mine, fit and finish is quite good. Slide alignments are better than what I usually find on demo instruments from European brands, and valves 1, 3 and 4 are vented so that slides can be pulled for dumping or real-time tuning without issue. Appearance-wise, it hits above its weight based on the price point in comparison with alternatives. There were no obvious cost-cutting moves, like chintzy thumb rings or missing water keys.

If had to make a change, it would be to shorten the first slide to provide more options for those D's.

Rick "glad it's working for Mark" Denney

I'm going to live with it for a month or two, and if I find that shortening the lower part of the 1st valve slide would give me an option to push it in to help a couple notes thet tend to be 20 cents flat without sacrificing the pull of the upper slide, then I'm not bashful about doing that

Thanks Rick! You are exactly right. I'm comparing this 534 to the same design of instrument that C-S is currently churning out. I wouldn't have picked the King if it was half the cost of the eastman, and it certainly is NOT

Current retail price of the 2341 is over $10k

My point, summarized:

- Neither is something that I would choose to play.
- Both are more than local taxpayers should be expected to supply for other people's school children (and it doesn't matter whether a particular state/county/municipality is $h!tting tax revenue or not. It's NOT an issued of "standards". Rather, its' a matter of being sensible/frugal/conservative/reasonable. If were are to be fair-minded, we cannot object to overspending on things which do not interest us, YET be exorbitant when pushing for government expenditures regarding those things in which we ourselves happen to be interested.

Musicians ire is raised when the discover that I'm against (as proportionally small as it may be - a measly $200M) the National Endowment for the Arts, but how - morally/ethically/reasonably - can I be FOR that while being AGAINST taxpayers supplying/building/erecting arenas and stadiums (and to the detailed specifications of the users) for professional sports teams - who then charge hundreds of dollars per ticket to those whose personal earnings were heavily taxed (property/sales/auto tags/etc.) to supply those venues - free of charge ?

I'll rarely see a used Eastman version for $4XXX.
More commonly, I'll see a used King for around the same price...sometimes less.

Additionally, schools should always be allowed to buy GOOD/USED for a reasonably-specified but large percentage of small/portable teaching equipment, and MORE AND MORE school systems - I'm seeing - are suspending obsolete old rules regarding this, which is a good thing.

Finally, the Yamabot zombie educator mentality needs to disappear. It's often at least double-priced (again, a complete disregard for the persecuted taxpayer), and - additionally - often isn't the best available.

You really don't have a say in how Texas districts spend money

If they want to to buy 8 tubas, I'd rather them buy 8 Eastmans instead of the Yamaha or Kings. That not even mentioning their money will go farther with the eastmans

tofu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 7:54 pm
I do agree that schools should be allowed to buy used. Protocols need to be in place however, so they aren’t cutting deals buying worn out junk with band directors getting kickbacks from scratch my back I scratch your back deals. I doubt however the major bad spending in schools is due to tuba spending.

In my district at least, the amount of money coming from the school district for instruments, uniforms etc is pretty minimal compared to the actual expense of running the band program. The bulk of the funds for new instruments actually comes from a very active band boosters program. Money for silver 20K sousaphones and Miraphone 186's for concert band... band parents fund raised a long time for those. New uniforms... boosters. New silks for the color guard... boosters. Fancy consultant to design drill and arrange music... boosters. The district pays the band directors, repair and maintenance on instruments, transportation to and from events, music licensing for marching and concerts etc, but it is really a partnership between the district (taxpayers) and band boosters. Personally I am with @bloke and think it is insane to buy silver (satin silver at that so hard to maintain!) instruments for high school marching, I also told the band director and booster president not to buy Miraphones to replace the busted up St. Petes and instead to service and make good use out of the Conn 25Js (top action 4 valve upright bell) and King 2341s (old removable bell not the new ones @LeMark references in his video) from the 60s and 70s that are collecting dust in the instrument room (apparently they don't have the right tone for a modern high school wind ensemble but they can't sell one to me for fair market value because they are city property). If you haven't guessed... I am not popular at the booster meetings.

My biggest issue with school waste is the process of selling off old instruments at auction in a bulk lot for pennies on the dollar instead of keeping them to use at home tubas, ect.

And I also teach for a district that will ONLY buy ybb-641 tubas, so if the high school wants something better than that, they have to fundraise for them

I'm 100% for parents' own pockets having to pay to buy fancy schmancy tubas and fancy schmancy anything rather than taxpayers who don't have children in band being strong armed into purchasing inappropriately high-end equipment for school children. It seems to me though that would be a little bit more efficient for parents to buy their own individual children those fancy schmancy instruments, so they wouldn't have to walk away from them when their own children graduated.

The Yamasyndicate? That crap needs to be stopped. All that stuff is double priced, compared to other Asian made instruments which are as good or better.

There are obvious immediate advantages too handing children all of the very best stuff and giving them all of this extra private and individual attention, but - besides wrongly raping taxpayers - it doesn't teach the children how to go out into the world and find solutions to problems on their own.

This is sort of a related topic but it's going off on a tangent just a bit:
There is a pattern of inheritance that has been noticed by people who study society, in that when a generation of a family works really hard too accumulate wealth, the next generation may or may not take the ball and run with it and develop it even further, but one or two generations after that, the progeny almost always end up penniless. It's really best for every person to struggle to make their own way. Some help - of course - is necessary and beneficial, but too much help often isn't.

I'm on a cruise right now. If the local shop doesn't get any more examples by the time I get back, I'll probably go ahead and pay for this one (and the French horn they sent my wife) and call it a day

For the 99th time, fiberglass sousaphones for all indoor and outdoor uses, the King type of design seeming to offer the best overall intonation (extremely similar to the intonation characteristics of the King full size concert tubas, and particularly the older taller ones) and enhancing that with three compensating valves. Children just don't need anything better than that (with that being remarkably good) and - if they do, their parents should buy it.
If upright bells are desired, perhaps band parents organizations can buy those for the sousaphones as accessories.
Already knowing how well King fiberglass sousaphones (particularly those from 30 years ago) were made and how well they play, it's very easy to imagine how - particularly with three compensating valves - they would outplay a very very long list of instruments that are found in schools.

I'm stunned. I was talking to a band director last night, and mentioned that I just bought the Eastman 534

His reaction?

I have 35 534's at my new school. And 35 of those punchy little 4 valve 3/4's. They're fun too.

I mean this is Texas and I thought I couldn't be surprised by anything, but that is incredible. So you figure this has a be a high school cluster with multiple feeder schools, right?

Nope, he's the band director of a single middle school.

I have a band director friend who retired from a Tennessee band directing job at a fairly young age, and accepted a middle school job out in flyover country in Texas. The town actually had to buy some motels in retro fit them as little living units for school teachers who were willing to teach there but didn't want to commit to buying houses there. He reports to me that his inventory is vast, and he has shown me pictures and pictures and pictures and pictures of instruments and instruments and instruments and instruments. I don't think it matters whether or not there's money for this that can be taken from either the oil industry, or the corporate industry, or taxpayers. It's abusive to those who pay fees and taxes to the government to waste money like this. I don't like taxpayers money being wasted on stuff that I like anymore than I like wasting money on stuff that I don't care about.

I have to admit being shocked by that as well

I have a high school that has the entire tuba section sharing 5 tubas, and 2 of those are packers that they borrowed from another school in the district

If I'm going to be pissed off about local or state government and possibly with federal subsidies as well building athletic arenas and stadiums - which only a small percentage of the people are going to use and from which specific very small entities are going to greatly profit, then I have to be fair about government spending too much on stuff that I'm personally interested in or would benefit from.

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