Having heard two fine players play bass trumpets tonight,

[bloke]

> I still maintain that a King flugabone is probably a better bass trumpet than most bass trumpets in any price range, and

> Trombone players hired to play bass trumpets often seem to use mouthpieces that make them sound like English baritones.

[donn]

Is it possible that the instrument hasn't been used enough to establish a traditional concept? I wouldn't be surprised if a flugabone makes a better flugabone.

I see there's a youtube video that speaks to this question Bass Trumpet, Flugabone, and Trombone: What's the Difference? This person, with whom I think we are acquainted, plays a bass trumpet like it isn't a flugabone, let's put it that way. There could be a salsa influence here, judging from a pretty awesome multi-track that youtube sprang on me after that one. Also provides a video demonstrating different mouthpieces, but to me it sounds very much like the same instrument with those mouthpieces.

To me, it's kind of like why trombone players don't get the valve trombone. The ability and need to precisely adjust the length of a very cylindrical instrument, leads to a different skill set and a different ear. It isn't about how the tone sounds at some instant in the middle of the note - musical instruments are actually really hard to tell apart there - it's how the note is produced and manipulated across the duration. A salsa player with a valve trombone is going to slur and vibrato like a trumpet, and sound really great - and really different from a trombone player. The name "trombone" in there is unfortunate, valve trombone isn't really a trombone family instrument, and bass trumpet even less so. Neither are they of course members of the tuba family. To me, after hearing the same thing played well on the bass trumpet, the flugabone sounded ... well, kind of lifeless at times, though of course it has its own potentials.

[bloke]

I've noticed that bass trumpets vary enough so as it would be pretty difficult to claim that a flugabone is not a bass trumpet - particularly were it originally manufactured and labeled as a bass trumpet.

I suspect one thing that triggers bass trumpet owners (when it is suggested that King flugabones do a better job filling that role than most bass trumpets) is that flugabones cost a whole bunch less (likely even if new, which they are not) than a whole bunch of bass trumpets, and also the flugabone was originally designed as a lowly marching instrument. Certainly build quality - during the era that King manufactured flugabones - cannot be effectively/legitimately criticized.

https://www.miraphone.de/bb-bass-trumpet-11.html

This one (linked above, and manufactured by widely beloved company) costs about like some of the most expensive bass trombones, and I notice that the bore size and bell diameter are very close to those of a flugabone. It has four valves, but a flugabone has a move-on-the-fly #3 slide. As is known, four non-compensating valves doesn't do a whole lot to extend the low range (as if a bass trumpet is expected to play super- low: ie. "not"), and inadequately repairs the 1 3 and 1 2 3 intonation issues. Mostly, I've seen three valve versions of this model, admittedly.

mouthpieces:
Most symphonic trombonists who happen to own a bass trumpet (approximately 100% of the trombonists who are hired as extras to play bass trumpets with symphony orchestras) are probably going to have to scrounge to find anything smaller than a 12C mouthpiece. To my ears, it takes something considerably smaller than that for those instruments to sound like they belong to the trumpet family. I'm aware that few people have seen many non-E-flat instrument mouthpieces which fill that bill, but I actually have something here that I made up that accomplishes it, and without feeling like an E-flat instrument mouthpiece to the face... and no, I'm not trying to sneak in some advertisement for bass trumpet mouthpieces into a thread. I don't have anything for sale, at least not at this time.

... I guess I've spoken here to both the physical requirements for something to be called a bass trumpet (arguably, bore and bell size up to 1/2-inch // 8 inches), as well as what I personally view what I believe to be the sonic/aural requirements of a bass trumpet. Anyone who views those top-end dimensions as too large, might look back towards the typical sizes of much more commonly-played brass instruments up until sometime into the last half of the 20th century (as well as the linked Miraphone dimensions).

[Ace]

Dave Fedderly told me many years ago that serious orchestral players playing a bass trumpet part used instruments made by Thein. I see there presently is a Thein bass trumpet for sale on the board here.

Ace

[donn]

The mouthpieces demonstration - Warburton 8S/4*, Bach 12E, Bach 9AT
Bass Trumpet Mouthpiece Comparison

Joseph Lidl bass trumpet, bore a millimeter smaller than that Miraphone.

[BopEuph]

Joseph Lidl bass trumpet, bore a millimeter smaller than that Miraphone.

And like $2k more.

Edit: Oh wait, I got that confused with the Thein...which someone on here is selling it for $8k used.

And I'm not saying the horn isn't great, or that's not the market value (I don't know), but it seems a bad idea to have an $8k instrument when whoever the guy is that has the most bass trumpet gigs in one year probably doesn't make half that in bass trumpet specific gigs...seems more like a collector's instrument.

[bloke]

I still like my really well made King bass trumpet. I also like the price that I paid for it, which was less than three sacks of groceries, these days. If I ever play a fancy schmancy bass trumpet that I like better than my King bass trumpet, I'll let everyone know. By the way, I also like the fact that the King bass trumpet doesn't need a main slide trigger.

Almost like my King bass trumpet as much as I like uninformed argumentative responses, which are offered for the sake of being argumentative.

Someday, I might even get a silver King bass trumpet, which would sound even better.

12E is still a trombone mouthpiece.