Baltimore Brass tuba reviews, 3/29/24
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:02 am
I had a chance on a trip down the East Coast to stop at BBC and play some tubas. I took some notes just in case anybody else would be interested and decided to post a bit of a write up. I mostly spent time on the CCs and Fs but played a couple of the interesting or unusual looking BBbs as well.
CC Tubas
B&S 795 International Series 4/4 CC, $7,450: Nice, dark "core" sound, but I found it to be very stiff in both response and in physical, ergonomic effort -- maybe it just needed a breaking-in period, but it made my hand ache. Typical sharp 3rd partial as seen on many tubas but otherwise intonation was good. For the money, for a Chinese 4/4 CC tuba, I don't see how this can really beat an Eastman 632/832, but the larger bore (19mm/.748") does help make the low range easier and more secure than an Eastman.
Meister Walter Nirschl MWN7 4/4 CC, $11,995: Very responsive, flexible and a blast to play. Great sound, a bit brighter than the 795 that I had just played before it, but it felt "alive" in your hands, so to speak. Intonation was pretty good after warming it up, but I was puzzled by the 5th partial notes which tended paradoxically sharp. I also felt like it was easier to push this tuba in the low range without breaking up as easily. Beautiful sound, loved it.
Willson 3050Z rotary 5/4 CC, $9,995: Sorry Willson fans, but I did not like this tuba at all despite being really interested in it. Way, way too heavy. Does this weigh over 30 pounds? The onus of the weight and trying to pick up/hold the thing turned me off immediately, but upon playing it, I found the Willson Rotax rotors to be incredibly heavy and stiff, with a thumb ring in a non-ergonomic spot. Intonation was just pretty wonky, with opposite intonation tendenices to the vast majority of other tubas (sharp 5th partial, low 3rd partial, etc.). It would take some getting used to for sure. The low range was really powerful and I thought it had a pretty good sound, but the other factors were a bit of a turn off for me. The piston version, IMO, is a bit better. BBC has a couple piston ones but I didn't get to try them in the interest of time.
John Packer 379 CC (HB21/Adams copy) $6,295 Pretty much an accurate copy of the HB21 tuba, so if you like that one with its varied quirks, you'll like this one. Pretty responsive and easy to play, and I even found the Hirsbrunner quirk of an unfocused low Bb/A/G#* to be somewhat mitigated in this model. Hirsbrunner-esque intonation issues with the 2+3 combo notes was present, and the 5th partial notes were all pretty flat even with some alternate fingerings. That said, it plays really well with a very nice, dark sound. I haven't played on many JPs before and I found this one to have really nice build quality, excellent valves/slides, and the fit and finish all seemed great.
(*I found that low A and G# had a "power slot" about 75c below the actual note, so care is needed to make sure one isn't undershooting those pitches.)
Epley PT-6/Martin/Miraphone/Hirsbrunner Franken 6/4 CC: One of Norm Epley's creations that they had just received and hadn't put a price on it yet nor had they sent it through their shop for a once-over. Big sound, really easy to play, nice fast Miraphone valves. Intonation pretty decent as well, especially for a big tuba like this. Has an AGR. I chatted with Norm a bit about this horn, and the original buyer instructed Norm to not do a few things with it to save time and cost, so with some cleaning up and addressing those issues I think it will be a really great and unique instrument.
Bass Tubas
Old 5v Cerveny F, $3,200: One of my favorite tubas that I played there! I think this is Marty Neilan's on consignment(?). Great sound, even across all registers, pretty good intonation. Big sound for an F tuba, can definitely make some racket. Only quirk is the 5th valve is the two-step (2+3) combo, which I am not used to.
Cerveny CFB-653 4PX 4v F, $2,400: Super fun horn, super light, a joy to play. I'd love to have this to play while strolling with a German band or something of that nature. Despite the small size it produces a surprisingly fat sound, and the low range is fine if you know how to play a German-style F tuba.
I did not find it to be diffuse at all. For the money this would be worth picking up and maybe adding a fifth valve to.
John Packer 379 F (MW 2250 copy), $5,999: Very big F tuba, fun to play, great intonation, felt like a small CC tuba. I could see how this would be attractive to someone who likes a larger F tuba, but to me, tonally, it is so close to a CC that I don't feel like it offers many benefits that couldn't be gained by plugging a slightly shallower mouthpiece into a contrabass tuba. Well-made, seems like a pretty faithful reproduction. Even response across all registers. I found the high range past F above the staff to verge on tenuous/tubby. Nice fat Eb-tuba-ish sound.
Meinl-Weston 45SLP F (didn't note price): A decade or so ago, this tuba cemented itself in my psyche as my least favorite F tuba, and I decided to give it another shot to see if my tastes or opinions have changed. Nope, unfortunately. Awkward for me to hold, with the mouthpiece hitting me square in between my eyes in normal playing position (I have a short torso). I found the upper range to be a bit tenuous like the 2250, but the low range, despite being a "piston F tuba," in which you would expect something sort of like a contrabass tuba in that range, was also pretty difficult for me to center. As someone who cut their teeth on rotary F tubas and has absolutely no problem with playing in that range on a rotary F, this piston F tuba was just plain weird to play in that range. So, in a way, it has a bit of worst-of-both-worlds going for it: rather diffuse in the high range, rather diffuse in the low range. I know some people like these horns and sound fantastic on them, but just not this tuba player's cup of tea! I do like that they come stock with a 2nd valve slide kicker, and intonation when using that device was pretty manageable. Super short main tuning slide, though.
Besson 981 round stamp (made in England) compensating Eb: I've owned some older 15" bell Bessons and B&Hs, so it was a lot of fun to play on this 19" bell version. Lovely fat round "poofy" sound, very flexible and facile, pretty decent intonation. I found the 8th partial to still be saggy, which is something that the 15" bell versions exhibit and I thought Besson had corrected. If I had to have one tuba to do 99% of my playing, I would choose this one or something like it.
BBb Tubas
Hirsbrunner 3v compensator, $4,000: Didn't spend a whole lot of time on this one, but it was a lot of fun to play, and I wanted to check and see what the intonation was like with the rotary 3v compensating system engaged. Pretty good! Although 1+3 and 1+2+3 tended a hair sharp, much better than a regular ol' 3-banger. Some sharpness issues in the open bugle, esp. 3rd partial. I think this one shares a bugle with the tuba that Jin Bao copied and turned into the 210.
Miraphone 1271. $4,995: Really fun horn! Nice valves, typical Miraphone fit and finish. Good intonation with some typical BBb quirks -- I wish the 1st valve slide were operable while playing. It is downward facing for some odd reason. It's a shame this model had some bell damage, because otherwise I found it to be really nice and punchy. Nice 7/8 sized horn. I prefer it to comparable Conns.
Old old Hirsbrunner 3v BBb, $2,000-ish: On my way out, this caught my eye. Tall, skinny smokestack bell, looked like it would be pretty fun to play. It was! Clockspring linkages still working well, required some alternate 5th partial fingerings. Big, fat, dark sound. I think these old German-style (it is Swiss, after all) tubas are pretty neat.
Overall, had a wonderful time, the staff were all very gracious and generous, and I got on the mailing list for when they start up BBC tuba rest production again. Great visit!
CC Tubas
B&S 795 International Series 4/4 CC, $7,450: Nice, dark "core" sound, but I found it to be very stiff in both response and in physical, ergonomic effort -- maybe it just needed a breaking-in period, but it made my hand ache. Typical sharp 3rd partial as seen on many tubas but otherwise intonation was good. For the money, for a Chinese 4/4 CC tuba, I don't see how this can really beat an Eastman 632/832, but the larger bore (19mm/.748") does help make the low range easier and more secure than an Eastman.
Meister Walter Nirschl MWN7 4/4 CC, $11,995: Very responsive, flexible and a blast to play. Great sound, a bit brighter than the 795 that I had just played before it, but it felt "alive" in your hands, so to speak. Intonation was pretty good after warming it up, but I was puzzled by the 5th partial notes which tended paradoxically sharp. I also felt like it was easier to push this tuba in the low range without breaking up as easily. Beautiful sound, loved it.
Willson 3050Z rotary 5/4 CC, $9,995: Sorry Willson fans, but I did not like this tuba at all despite being really interested in it. Way, way too heavy. Does this weigh over 30 pounds? The onus of the weight and trying to pick up/hold the thing turned me off immediately, but upon playing it, I found the Willson Rotax rotors to be incredibly heavy and stiff, with a thumb ring in a non-ergonomic spot. Intonation was just pretty wonky, with opposite intonation tendenices to the vast majority of other tubas (sharp 5th partial, low 3rd partial, etc.). It would take some getting used to for sure. The low range was really powerful and I thought it had a pretty good sound, but the other factors were a bit of a turn off for me. The piston version, IMO, is a bit better. BBC has a couple piston ones but I didn't get to try them in the interest of time.
John Packer 379 CC (HB21/Adams copy) $6,295 Pretty much an accurate copy of the HB21 tuba, so if you like that one with its varied quirks, you'll like this one. Pretty responsive and easy to play, and I even found the Hirsbrunner quirk of an unfocused low Bb/A/G#* to be somewhat mitigated in this model. Hirsbrunner-esque intonation issues with the 2+3 combo notes was present, and the 5th partial notes were all pretty flat even with some alternate fingerings. That said, it plays really well with a very nice, dark sound. I haven't played on many JPs before and I found this one to have really nice build quality, excellent valves/slides, and the fit and finish all seemed great.
(*I found that low A and G# had a "power slot" about 75c below the actual note, so care is needed to make sure one isn't undershooting those pitches.)
Epley PT-6/Martin/Miraphone/Hirsbrunner Franken 6/4 CC: One of Norm Epley's creations that they had just received and hadn't put a price on it yet nor had they sent it through their shop for a once-over. Big sound, really easy to play, nice fast Miraphone valves. Intonation pretty decent as well, especially for a big tuba like this. Has an AGR. I chatted with Norm a bit about this horn, and the original buyer instructed Norm to not do a few things with it to save time and cost, so with some cleaning up and addressing those issues I think it will be a really great and unique instrument.
Bass Tubas
Old 5v Cerveny F, $3,200: One of my favorite tubas that I played there! I think this is Marty Neilan's on consignment(?). Great sound, even across all registers, pretty good intonation. Big sound for an F tuba, can definitely make some racket. Only quirk is the 5th valve is the two-step (2+3) combo, which I am not used to.
Cerveny CFB-653 4PX 4v F, $2,400: Super fun horn, super light, a joy to play. I'd love to have this to play while strolling with a German band or something of that nature. Despite the small size it produces a surprisingly fat sound, and the low range is fine if you know how to play a German-style F tuba.
I did not find it to be diffuse at all. For the money this would be worth picking up and maybe adding a fifth valve to. John Packer 379 F (MW 2250 copy), $5,999: Very big F tuba, fun to play, great intonation, felt like a small CC tuba. I could see how this would be attractive to someone who likes a larger F tuba, but to me, tonally, it is so close to a CC that I don't feel like it offers many benefits that couldn't be gained by plugging a slightly shallower mouthpiece into a contrabass tuba. Well-made, seems like a pretty faithful reproduction. Even response across all registers. I found the high range past F above the staff to verge on tenuous/tubby. Nice fat Eb-tuba-ish sound.
Meinl-Weston 45SLP F (didn't note price): A decade or so ago, this tuba cemented itself in my psyche as my least favorite F tuba, and I decided to give it another shot to see if my tastes or opinions have changed. Nope, unfortunately. Awkward for me to hold, with the mouthpiece hitting me square in between my eyes in normal playing position (I have a short torso). I found the upper range to be a bit tenuous like the 2250, but the low range, despite being a "piston F tuba," in which you would expect something sort of like a contrabass tuba in that range, was also pretty difficult for me to center. As someone who cut their teeth on rotary F tubas and has absolutely no problem with playing in that range on a rotary F, this piston F tuba was just plain weird to play in that range. So, in a way, it has a bit of worst-of-both-worlds going for it: rather diffuse in the high range, rather diffuse in the low range. I know some people like these horns and sound fantastic on them, but just not this tuba player's cup of tea! I do like that they come stock with a 2nd valve slide kicker, and intonation when using that device was pretty manageable. Super short main tuning slide, though.
Besson 981 round stamp (made in England) compensating Eb: I've owned some older 15" bell Bessons and B&Hs, so it was a lot of fun to play on this 19" bell version. Lovely fat round "poofy" sound, very flexible and facile, pretty decent intonation. I found the 8th partial to still be saggy, which is something that the 15" bell versions exhibit and I thought Besson had corrected. If I had to have one tuba to do 99% of my playing, I would choose this one or something like it.
BBb Tubas
Hirsbrunner 3v compensator, $4,000: Didn't spend a whole lot of time on this one, but it was a lot of fun to play, and I wanted to check and see what the intonation was like with the rotary 3v compensating system engaged. Pretty good! Although 1+3 and 1+2+3 tended a hair sharp, much better than a regular ol' 3-banger. Some sharpness issues in the open bugle, esp. 3rd partial. I think this one shares a bugle with the tuba that Jin Bao copied and turned into the 210.
Miraphone 1271. $4,995: Really fun horn! Nice valves, typical Miraphone fit and finish. Good intonation with some typical BBb quirks -- I wish the 1st valve slide were operable while playing. It is downward facing for some odd reason. It's a shame this model had some bell damage, because otherwise I found it to be really nice and punchy. Nice 7/8 sized horn. I prefer it to comparable Conns.
Old old Hirsbrunner 3v BBb, $2,000-ish: On my way out, this caught my eye. Tall, skinny smokestack bell, looked like it would be pretty fun to play. It was! Clockspring linkages still working well, required some alternate 5th partial fingerings. Big, fat, dark sound. I think these old German-style (it is Swiss, after all) tubas are pretty neat.
Overall, had a wonderful time, the staff were all very gracious and generous, and I got on the mailing list for when they start up BBC tuba rest production again. Great visit!
