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I mean it's been based out of the same office for 15 years. They have been threatening this for the better part of that time as well. I worked there for 3.5 years handling government sales and what's left of Jo-Ral.

I already through they were the same company!

LeMark wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:46 am I already through they were the same company!

"Woodwind & Brasswind (WWBW) is joining M&A. The two organizations – both part of the Guitar Center family of brands...."

They are.

I interpret this as the dissolving the WWBW brand and most of their infrastructure, with inventory now being sold through M&A.

Stores that gripe about stuff like this are often the same places that go into taxpayer-built schools (with no competition) with "good-enough" Chinese beginner band instruments (that cost them $200 - $450) and rent them to naive parents for $6X - $1XX/mo. (getting all their wholesale cost back in the first semester - possibly, even before they have to pay the manufacturer/importer...??), go BACK in (second semester) do a so-called "step-up" meeting (again: no competition in a public/government school) and - once again - get naive parents ("Your band director has told us how AMAZINGLY well your children are doing !!!!") to make foolish purchases (ie. fancied-up beginner - ie. "step-up" instruments) for well more than the competitive online prices of actual professional-quality instruments...

...so why should we give a crap if they are "hurt" by this...??

reminds me of simpler times ...

when the tuna would pitch buying from him as "tax free" ...

It seems to me that people used to buy from them, because Dennis would sell cheaper than wholesale by floor-planning 2 years in advance during a time of high inflation, just like now.

Lately, all their prices have been not particularly exciting, at least from what I've seen. They're just prices. I remember back when Buffet tried to get us to be a dealer and I pointed out to them that Bamber's prices were cheaper than their fourth line quantity discount prices on their own stuff.

I suspect that more and more places will go the way that Buffet has gone recently, and just sell direct to the public. The Chinese have been doing that for quite a while, with the only issue being that people can't tell which stuff that's sold direct from China is the same as the stuff that they're familiar with that has familiar brand names on it...

Something I've learned over the decades is that people aren't particularly interested in high quality regarding anything in particular. Even in the old days when everything they sold was made in the United States, Sears offered good, better, and best. They made a whole shitload of money off the good, which rarely was particularly good.

now:
back to my internet shopping for my next silver 6/4 C tuba with great big cool finger buttons on it.

Dents Be Gone! wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 3:56 am Dennis would buy entire runs of product. Any new model coming out or very popular model of something would end up being exclusive to him not by contract, but by the fact that he’d make sure that he ordered first and ordered so much that he would satiate demand before other sellers had a chance to even offer anything. Whose order are you going to fill first? The place that orders 2-3 of something or the place that keeps YOUR lights on by consistently, year after year, ordering 100’s? He also crushed everyone else by cutting margins to almost nothing. Others couldn’t even keep their lights on at those levels. He kept his on by volume and availability. This went on for decades until it didn’t.

would have (??) still be going, were it not for a manufacturer lawsuit...

...I wonder if he could have bought everything the Chinese could assemble and ship...

bloke's surreal wwbw experience:

I had decided to buy a model 5450 tuba.
There was one (used) for sale in Cincinnati, but I decided to go look at wwbw (big detour) to compare new (and remind myself once again how they play) before going to check out the used.
I went in there (way past the "little house with the dug out basement" era) after they had built that fabulous gigantic "superstore". It was so eye-poppingly large, that it seemed as though hardly anyone was in there (yet there were quite a few in there, I suppose - with a huge combo - guitars/amps/drums/keyboards - area).

fwiw, they only had one new 5450 in stock, and it was a stinker. (I'm maybe remembering that - after the first batch hit the states - there were epic backorders for them, along with - at least, what I personally observed/"in my opinion" - hasty assembly.) I got ready to leave, and (think about being c. 600 miles from home) I bumped in to Kristi Crago...She played in an orchestra with me (one where most everyone was flown in and housed by sponsors), and she also was a member of the Burning River Brass ensemble. I'm thinking she was headed over I-90 (I'm thinking from some gig in Chicago, though I believe I'm remembering that her home city was Detroit) to Cleveland to rehearse with them for an upcoming tour. She had existed the freeway to purchase (LOL) a bottle of Al Cass oil.

Dents Be Gone! wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 3:56 am Dennis would buy entire runs of product. Any new model coming out or very popular model of something would end up being exclusive to him not by contract, but by the fact that he’d make sure that he ordered first and ordered so much that he would satiate demand before other sellers had a chance to even offer anything. Whose order are you going to fill first? The place that orders 2-3 of something or the place that keeps YOUR lights on by consistently, year after year, ordering 100’s? He also crushed everyone else by cutting margins to almost nothing. Others couldn’t even keep their lights on at those levels. He kept his on by volume and availability. This went on for decades until it didn’t.

Can you say, "Allocation...."

Dents Be Gone! wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 10:29 am Giving a last poke at some of this, we were standing here just now and all agreed that it was an interesting time back in the day. We pretty much all thought it was fun to experience all the availability. Not sure I’d call this the famine, but it sure was a feast for buyers. Say what you will, Dennis was sharp how he worked that business.

As far as allocation goes, I have to believe those suppliers did what they could to fill orders as best they could and make as much money as possible! He was just good at being first at the barrel and often bought the whole thing.

He and I talked on the phone, and knew each other by name. He never talked down to me. I don't dislike him at all.

I believe he's now doing real estate.

bloke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:48 am Stores that gripe about stuff like this are often the same places that go into taxpayer-built schools (with no competition) with "good-enough" Chinese beginner band instruments (that cost them $200 - $450) and rent them to naive parents for $6X - $1XX/mo. (getting all their wholesale cost back in the first semester - possibly, even before they have to pay the manufacturer/importer...??), go BACK in (second semester) do a so-called "step-up" meeting (again: no competition in a public/government school) and - once again - get naive parents ("Your band director has told us how AMAZINGLY well your children are doing !!!!") to make foolish purchases (ie. fancied-up beginner - ie. "step-up" instruments) for well more than the competitive online prices of actual professional-quality instruments...

...so why should we give a crap if they are "hurt" by this...??

I still teach through there (have shifted to online only, longer story there). They would try to sell step up instruments to my trombone students as you mentioned. I had a couple who would buy them, namely the yamaha "intermediate" wasn't too bad, but I told the parents to wait until their horn was paid off and to ensure the students would stay in band. I still always put the students and their needs first over sales goals. I’d rather a student keep a beginner model horn longer and then get a professional model instrument, which is a better fit financially and playing wise WHEN they are ready.