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Hello. If you have any information about the tuba I own, I would like to know.

I bought a used Amati rotary tuba 10 years ago.
There was no information regarding this instrument at the time of purchase, and even when I contacted Amati, I was unable to find out any further details.

In order to share information about the instrument and the information I have researched, I would like to hear from anyone who knows the model, year of manufacture, or any other details, or if anyone has an old catalog. thank you.

◯My tuba information
・"Amati KRASLICE" engraved on the front of the bell
・4 rotary of B pipe
・Silver plating
・“Made in CZECHO SLOVAKIA” engraved on the mouth pipe
・"63566" is engraved on the base that supports the spring of the No. 1 rotary
・"X4" is engraved on the outside of the tube containing the No. 1 rotary

◯Survey results
・Maybe, the model number is ABB481, Model68/L. same as CBB681.
・Maybe, made in Cerveny and sold under the Amati brand
・Since it is not S-linkages, it is thought to be from 1980 or later, but from the name of the country stamped on it, it is thought to be before 1992.

◯What I want to know
・Model
・Manufacturing date
・Price at that time, etc.

Very interesting tuba. It has the modern style of engraving that started it the early 90's, but the spatulas are in the style that ended when the engraving changed

Do you live in Europe? They might have held onto the older spatula design longer there

Yes, it's basically a cerveny. The only difference between the amati rotor tubas and the cerveny tubas was the use of nickel silver outer slides in the cerveny instead of brass. Since your tuba is silver plated, it's much more difficult to tell that.

I can't remember the prices back then, but I'm guessing around $4000 new

I had a tuba pretty much exactly like that, in lacquer, purchased from Tuba Exchange in the early 1980’s. The model number is indeed ABB 681 and it is analogous to the Cerveny 681. I thought it was a great horn and I regret selling it.

Try this:
Amati Rotor 1970 Roster
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21A ... by&o=OneUp

Wonderful condition !!!

I believe I would have personally preferred string linkage that they put on those instruments prior to that type of linkage. If I owned one - and someone was willing to machine me some extra long ball cup screws and lock nuts, I'd probably be perfectly satisfied with that linkage, though.

Those tubas are so thin and light that- no matter how smushed up one was that someone brought to me to repair - I've never had to take them apart to repair them.

LeMark wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 6:07 am Very interesting tuba. It has the modern style of engraving that started it the early 90's, but the spatulas are in the style that ended when the engraving changed

Do you live in Europe? They might have held onto the older spatula design longer there

Yes, it's basically a cerveny. The only difference between the amati rotor tubas and the cerveny tubas was the use of nickel silver outer slides in the cerveny instead of brass. Since your tuba is silver plated, it's much more difficult to tell that.

I can't remember the prices back then, but I'm guessing around $4000 new

Thank you for your reply and for providing the information.

If the engraving is correct, it would be in the early 1990s, but considering the country name it would be 1992, so I understood that it was made during this time.

Do you have any information on how the engraving changed?

Thank you for letting me know the difference between Cerveny Tuba and Amati Tuba. If the outer slide is nickel silver, is it correct to assume that it was made in Cerveny and sold under the Amati brand?

thank you.

My gosh that thing looks remarkably similar to an old Mirafone 185. How wide is the bell? Bore size? Very nice condition for an older horn.

DonO. wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 6:47 am I had a tuba pretty much exactly like that, in lacquer, purchased from Tuba Exchange in the early 1980’s. The model number is indeed ABB 681 and it is analogous to the Cerveny 681. I thought it was a great horn and I regret selling it.

Thank you for your reply and for providing the information.

Something similar was sold in the early 1980s. Was it ABB481 that you purchased? I feel like some of the older ABB481s are from ClockWorkSpring, but what do you think of the ones you purchased?
thank you.

b.williams wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 7:13 am Try this:
Amati Rotor 1970 Roster
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21A ... by&o=OneUp

Thank you for providing us with this valuable catalog that is no longer available. I'm very surprised.

I looked at it and it seems that the 1654-4 and 1655-4 are close in spec to my tuba.

Does open springs in Notes refer to something like my tuba that uses Spring to drive a rotary? *For those without A, the rotary drive is a clock work spring type.

If you know anything, please let me know. thank you.

bloke wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 7:49 am Wonderful condition !!!

I believe I would have personally preferred string linkage that they put on those instruments prior to that type of linkage. If I owned one - and someone was willing to machine me some extra long ball cup screws and lock nuts, I'd probably be perfectly satisfied with that linkage, though.

Those tubas are so thin and light that- no matter how smushed up one was that someone brought to me to repair - I've never had to take them apart to repair them.

Thank you for your reply.

What kind of string linkage do you recommend? I was very interested.

Will you also have repairs done? I sometimes hear a clicking sound when I move the rotary, so I would like some advice on what to do.

thank you.

tofu wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:24 pm My gosh that thing looks remarkably similar to an old Mirafone 185. How wide is the bell? Bore size? Very nice condition for an older horn.

Thank you for your reply. I looked at the image, and it certainly looks similar to Miraphone 185. I will share the results of measuring my instrument.

◯Specifications of my tuba
bell:400mm
bore:20mm
height:1000mm

Is it possible to make it in Amati or Cerveny and sell it under another manufacturer's name?

thank you.

The reason cerveny tubas look like miraphones is that at the end of WW2, the Czech craftsmen fled the communist rule of the east, took their tooling with them, and started miraphone in West Germany. At the time the cerveny model was known as the 68. It became the miraphone 86, and changed to the 186 when exported to the US.

Tombass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 11:45 pm

DonO. wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 6:47 am I had a tuba pretty much exactly like that, in lacquer, purchased from Tuba Exchange in the early 1980’s. The model number is indeed ABB 681 and it is analogous to the Cerveny 681. I thought it was a great horn and I regret selling it.

Thank you for your reply and for providing the information.

Something similar was sold in the early 1980s. Was it ABB481 that you purchased? I feel like some of the older ABB481s are from ClockWorkSpring, but what do you think of the ones you purchased?
thank you.

My apologies. It was the ABB 481, NOT 681. I still say it’s analogous to the Cerveny 681. It was early ‘80’s but no clockwork springs. Linkage looked pretty much just like yours. I loved it. Great tone, and I sounded very good on it. It was a lightly built tone machine. Tuba Exchange had gotten in a shipment of 6 and I tried all of them before settling on the one I bought. Tone wise and playability wise it was the pick of the litter. But that shows there is variability within that model.

Heh. Just noticed you can see "Cerveny" engraved on some of those tubas in the pictures in that Amati catalog. The "Opera Model" (Piggy) BBb is also listed, separate from the Arion. It did exist!

Sorry to derail, carry on.

LeMark wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 5:03 am The reason cerveny tubas look like miraphones is that at the end of WW2, the Czech craftsmen fled the communist rule of the east, took their tooling with them, and started miraphone in West Germany. At the time the cerveny model was known as the 68. It became the miraphone 86, and changed to the 186 when exported to the US.

they didn't fled the communist rule, they were kicked out of Czechoslovakia because they were Sudeten Germans and the Germans weren't that popular in Europe at that time.

LeMark wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 5:03 am The reason cerveny tubas look like miraphones is that at the end of WW2, the Czech craftsmen fled the communist rule of the east, took their tooling with them, and started miraphone in West Germany. At the time the cerveny model was known as the 68. It became the miraphone 86, and changed to the 186 when exported to the US.

Thank you for letting me know.
I was surprised to learn for the first time that the model changes depending on the country it is exported to and the situation at the time.

I was really interested in the history of each company. I will investigate.

thank you.

DonO. wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:21 am

Tombass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 11:45 pm

DonO. wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 6:47 am I had a tuba pretty much exactly like that, in lacquer, purchased from Tuba Exchange in the early 1980’s. The model number is indeed ABB 681 and it is analogous to the Cerveny 681. I thought it was a great horn and I regret selling it.

Thank you for your reply and for providing the information.

Something similar was sold in the early 1980s. Was it ABB481 that you purchased? I feel like some of the older ABB481s are from ClockWorkSpring, but what do you think of the ones you purchased?
thank you.

My apologies. It was the ABB 481, NOT 681. I still say it’s analogous to the Cerveny 681. It was early ‘80’s but no clockwork springs. Linkage looked pretty much just like yours. I loved it. Great tone, and I sounded very good on it. It was a lightly built tone machine. Tuba Exchange had gotten in a shipment of 6 and I tried all of them before settling on the one I bought. Tone wise and playability wise it was the pick of the litter. But that shows there is variability within that model.

Thank you for letting me know in detail.

Looking at the catalog, it seems that both specifications are available.

I couldn't compare them because I bought them secondhand, but I was surprised to see that there seemed to be individual differences.

Although it's an old instrument, I really like the tone, so I can understand why you say it's the best.

arpthark wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:23 am Heh. Just noticed you can see "Cerveny" engraved on some of those tubas in the pictures in that Amati catalog. The "Opera Model" (Piggy) BBb is also listed, separate from the Arion. It did exist!

Sorry to derail, carry on.

Thank you for the message.
Indeed, if you look at the catalog, there are some that have the cerveny stamp, and the lineup seems to be a little different from now.

I found a site where you can also view old pamphlets from other manufacturers, so I would like to share them with you as a reference.

https://www.horn-u-copia.net/library.shtml

thank you.

arpthark wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:23 am Heh. Just noticed you can see "Cerveny" engraved on some of those tubas in the pictures in that Amati catalog. The "Opera Model" (Piggy) BBb is also listed, separate from the Arion. It did exist!

Sorry to derail, carry on.

I have told this story before here. When I was a freshman in college in 1974, or perhaps early 1975, I went to the “Mid-East” band conference in Pittsburgh, PA. It was an attempt to provide a Mid-West type experience for band directors from the East that was closer for them. It didn’t last. It may have been the only attempt, or maybe a couple more years, I can’t recall. But Custom Music had a booth with lots of demo tubas on display, and I am sure I played a BBb Piggy. I think they were “exclusive” Cerveny dealers at the time. My memory is clear. I almost bought it. I probably would have if I would have had the cash on hand. It was impressive. And the fact that I considered buying it, well, if it had been CC, I wouldn’t have considered it. I would have only considered a BBb. Because my teacher, unlike many teachers of the time, did not ask me to switch from what I was already comfortable with. So, for all these years, people have been telling me I HAD to be wrong, because that particular horn did not exist. Now we have proof that it did exist! So my story now becomes more believable, does it not? Vindication!

DonO. wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:01 am

arpthark wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:23 am Heh. Just noticed you can see "Cerveny" engraved on some of those tubas in the pictures in that Amati catalog. The "Opera Model" (Piggy) BBb is also listed, separate from the Arion. It did exist!

Sorry to derail, carry on.

I have told this story before here. When I was a freshman in college in 1974, or perhaps early 1975, I went to the “Mid-East” band conference in Pittsburgh, PA. It was an attempt to provide a Mid-West type experience for band directors from the East that was closer for them. It didn’t last. It may have been the only attempt, or maybe a couple more years, I can’t recall. But Custom Music had a booth with lots of demo tubas on display, and I am sure I played a BBb Piggy. I think they were “exclusive” Cerveny dealers at the time. My memory is clear. I almost bought it. I probably would have if I would have had the cash on hand. It was impressive. And the fact that I considered buying it, well, if it had been CC, I wouldn’t have considered it. I would have only considered a BBb. Because my teacher, unlike many teachers of the time, did not ask me to switch from what I was already comfortable with. So, for all these years, people have been telling me I HAD to be wrong, because that particular horn did not exist. Now we have proof that it did exist! So my story now becomes more believable, does it not? Vindication!

Yep:



Although I have never seen one nor played one, I would wager the BBb Piggy would be a bit more consistent than the CC Piggy if they are anything like the similarly-sized/slightly smaller bore Arion BBb. The John Packer version of that tuba is excellent.