TubaForum.net

Yesterday, I went to a house to look at some instruments the local music shop told me about. Before viewing them, I found out it was a Mirafone BBb and a nice German bass. I got to the house and started with the tuba—everything was frozen and locked up. The open bugle did play really nice. We discussed the pros and cons of a 4-valve clockspring tuba and the difficulties of selling something of the sort in our region. The bass was much nicer than I expected. Vintage 50s Wenzl B Wilfer 3/4. I couldn't resist the bass and I have too many tubas. I grabbed the bass and came home. This morning I woke up and couldn't get the tuba out of my mind... it is so rare for decent instruments like these to come to the surface in this area. I called the folks up at 7:30 am and made arrangements for the horn.

Outcome:
It is a 185 BBb #1171, which I figure was made in the late 1950s. It has the same giant comb on the bottom as my 1960 186 CC 5U. The bore is slightly smaller, but it still stands 39 inches high with a 16 1/2 inch bell.
After getting everything unstuck, the clocksprings are reasonably quiet and functioning nicely and smoothly. The compression is good. Intonation is everything I hoped for. Resonate and very good intonation. I do notice the lips can just about put the pitch where you want it. My 186 has great intonation but doesn't seem to be as moveable as the 185.

The owner had the dents taken out years ago and relaquered. The condition is very good.

cons:
1st valve clockspring is broken - but it has an exterior spring that works fine.
My regular American shank mouthpieces only go in about a half-inch.
Lacquer seems crude in spots - like maybe dust specs or little pits. Mostly on inner pipes. Bell area lacquer is good. So, the overall finish is great.

I went into this knowing I just don't need more stuff but tonight I am SO HAPPY! The horn and bass are fantastic players!
TJ

That’s really odd to have a 16.5 in bell on a 185. They were only 14.875 even into the 1970’s - eventually going to 15.5 in and even now on the special order ones it’s only 16 in. I’d have said it was re-belled but the serial number clearly shows a 1950’s era serial number. Very odd. I wonder if this was rebelled at some point with a new from Miraphone Bell and they had the original number engraved on it. The other thing is that 39 in length I’ve never seen. There was some variation over the years but I’ve never seen one less than 39.5 and both of mine CC & BBb are 39.625 and 40.25 respectively. However mine are both from 1969 and I’ve never seen one from the 1950’s - so it’s entirely possible that’s what they were doing then from a length standpoint then, but even the 186’s in the 1960’s were only 16 inch bells. Is is possible this was a special order bell?

Nice find - I’m jealous!

I am also jealous. I have owned a 185 BBb and it was superb. Congrats!

The bell flare size doesn't look out of proportion. I would still bet $1 that it's a Model 86 and not an 85.

bloke wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 7:21 am The bell flare size doesn't look out of proportion. I would still bet $1 that it's a Model 86 and not an 85.

I have an old model 86 CC with clockwork springs and a 16.5" bell from what I believe would have been made in 1958 or 1959. It's a great player.

bloke wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 7:21 am The bell flare size doesn't look out of proportion. I would still bet $1 that it's a Model 86 and not an 85.

Agreed

Is that Harry Potter’s room in the background?

Yeah, I said 185 in the other thread but the angle here it looks like a 186. I'm not sure Miraphone even offered the 185 concurrently with the clockspring linkages.

Really neat find, cool bass, neat little bedroom under the stairs you've got there, too. I assume that's where you're sleeping because you acquired these instruments?

Okay. I like to camp out in my cozy spot sometimes because my wife likes to sleep with the TV on. I designed and built that "built-in" 30 years ago when we added on to the house.

185 or 186?
I'm not an expert on this subject, but I can tell you the bore of this BBb is smaller than my 186 CC, but my 186 CC is at my other house, and I am just comparing the BBb tuning crook that goes on my 186 CC. I'll put the calipers on it tomorrow and see if I can win that $1.
also, the receiver is smaller. It only takes about 1/2 inch of the American shank mouthpiece.

1. Go to a hardware store and buy a 3/4 inch diameter wooden dowel.
2. Remove one of the valve slides from the instrument. (The second slide will do just fine.)
3. Run a brush through the slide to clean it out (in order to prevent gook from being deposited on the wooden dowel).
4. Attempt to insert the wooden dowel into the removed slide.
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If the dowel feels too tight, the tuba is a model 85.

If the dowel slips in not-too-tight, tuba is a model 86.

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Once you've determined the model of the tuba, return the dowel to the hardware store for a refund/exchange (you could use some garden hose repair hardware, yes?), or use it to bolster the locking mechanism on an exterior sliding door.

Well, I finally have my 1960 Miraphone 186 CC 5U back in Pensacola and sitting beside the 50s BBb 4U I recently acquired. Surprisingly it is the same bore as the 186 CC, almost identical layout and same 16 1/2 inch bell. The tuning slides are interchangeable. I guess I thought is was a 185 because of the 16 1/2 bell. This BBb is a PLAYER!!!

The CC & BBb feel the same. I guess the smaller bell evens things out.

Intonation is very good - just like the CC. Point & shoot, great slots throughout. super high range.

So... I don't need a BBb. This late 50s Miraphone will be on the market in the near future.

Best,
Tim