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i can't seem to find a serial number but my eyes aren't the best they've been... i have looked for a list like other companies have, not found it yet, may not be asking the right questions... sent emails to meinl but haven't received response.

One way to approximate is if it happens to have the original version smaller diameter pistons.

bloke wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 9:10 am One way to approximate is if it happens to have the original version smaller diameter pistons.

i think i've talked with you about this earlier. i have never seen another 2145 so i have no point of reference to judge the sizes. the pistons are close to the size of my 2341... i don't know if that's the small/large size. i think i have a picture somewhere of the two side by side, i'll have to dig that up.

My 2155 has the serial number near the bottom of the receiver.

The smaller valves will also have a serial number on the cluster.

matt g wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 9:59 am The smaller valves will also have a serial number on the cluster.

I guess I'll have to carry it out into the sunshine or get a flashlight to see it.

The smaller diameter pistons are very roughly the size of King pistons, even though the bore going through them is larger than King.

The later made large diameter pistons are roughly the diameter of standard Elkhart style Conn pistons (such as those which were on the old budget model fiberglass sousaphones). I'm not comparing them to Holton 6/4 tuba pistons, because those tubas are sort of rare in the world as well, you may not have ever played or been around one of them.

“Small valves” had caps that would an accept a felt for the buttons to land on. “Big valve” used a felt beneath the button to index to the cap and had no felt groove machined into them. See below.

“Small valve” top cap on left, “Big valve” top cap on right.

My small valve 2165 has the serial stamped on the 2nd piston casing.

re: cap styles - Mine has HEAVY bottom caps. Warren Deck really wanted these things to have extra weight! I just had new caps machined in the style of the “big valves” and like it much better.

Those serial numbers - I'm thinking - are Nirschl numbers, and not really Melton numbers.

Agree with Joe. The number on the small valve sets is a Nirschl number used during manufacturing of the valve set and not the tuba.

bloke wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 3:21 pm Those serial numbers - I'm thinking - are Nirschl numbers, and not really Melton numbers.

They are Nirschl numbers and there’s probably a better chance of estimating age via comms with Walter vice getting info from the Buffet Group.

My impression of BCC is that they wouldn't give a crap about pre-BCC production, and certainly not Geretsried/Anton Meinl.

Are "small valves" smaller only in piston diameter, or is the bore smaller too? .748"?

MiBrassFS wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 3:00 pm “Small valves” had caps that would an accept a felt for the buttons to land on. “Big valve” used a felt beneath the button to index to the cap and had no felt groove machined into them. See below.

“Small valve” top cap on left, “Big valve” top cap on right.

Clipboard May 11, 2024 at 4.57 PM.jpeg

Ok... The left valve cap matches the ones on this instrument. There is no felt there...

bloke wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 5:32 pm My impression of BCC is that they wouldn't give a crap about pre-BCC production, and certainly not Geretsried/Anton Meinl.

Agreed. Hence me stating that Walter Nirschl might shed light on things if given a number from one of his sets.

Yeah, most of the 2145s that I've personally seen are older West German made ones.

What time period were the smaller valve 2145's made?

I'm thinking the '90s.

bloke wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 7:45 pm I'm thinking the '90s.

This. I think the switch was somewhere in the 1994 to 1996 timeframe? I don’t think the 2155 ever saw the “small valves” in production.