Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Projects, repair topics, and Frankentubas
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

yeah...
Summer repairs are frantic, urgent, epic, and NOT elegant.

' multi-patched, rotten mouthpipe on an old "Bach" (rebadged King 1120) mellophone.

Just cut the rotten part off, throw it in the scrap brass, and replace it.
(30 rushed minutes)

The swell saves time, as there's no ferrule to make and fit.
(Conn tuba tuning slides are made the same way...)

NEXT !!!

Image


Look at that MESSY solder joint (yeah...and the rest of the instrument is exquisite).
Image


BUT bloke...IT"S NOT SILVER !!!
right...and that's just going to ruin the entire cosmetic experience.

(This one was made during the time that UMI decided to try to do their own plating, rather than subcontracting it out to Anderson.)
Image
Image


User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

I got through nine mellophones yesterday (late start).
Remaining (this school...so I can get their stuff out of the barn and make room for other schools' instruments for which there isn't yet room to store their stuff) are one mellophone, two double horns, and five sousaphones.

I won't be barbecuing today, but I can repair instruments while attempting to curb my anger at a long list of warmongering presidents.
Last edited by bloke on Fri May 31, 2024 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Three Valves
Posts: 4507
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:07 pm
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 486 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by Three Valves »

Don't forget the worthless greenbacks! :coffee:
Thought Criminal
Mack Brass Artiste
TU422L with TU25
1964 Conn 36k with CB Arnold Jacobs
Accent (By B&S) 952R with Bach12
The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

Three Valves wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 2:36 pm Don't forget the worthless greenbacks! :coffee:
Yes. The only flag to which I would ever tip my hat would be the Weimar Republic flag.
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

I'm in for a ten minute break and coffee charge.

...a middle school with four euphoniums...
- two were compensating JP's and easy fixes
- one was a 4-valve top-action Jupiter (with all those slides that unscrew and several more soldered braces that were busted)
- the last one (same size case) turns out to be one of the Jupiter "English"-ish baritones.

The part circled in the picture was smushed absolutely flat.
After a bunch of annealing - and working back of compound creases, it looks "pretty good".
Yes I un-soldered the bow (only four solder joints).


Image

I'm heading back out there (as soon as this coffee disappears), smoothing it out a bit more (gave it one last annealing prior to heading in), removing the heat oxidation, and sticking it back on.

fun-fun-fun :teeth: :eyes:

(You who are within fifteen years of my age or so)...Could you just imagine how red our butts would be and how empty our piggy bank would be had WE done something like that...?? (as well as having been sent off to a juvie hard labor camp with about 10,000 strict rules - for the summer).
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

Thank goodness the very last two from that school were super easy to repair tubas. They sort of made up for that terrible baritone. Today I'm tearing into the same town's high school instruments, so - when done - we can deliver both schools' instruments on the same trip... including dropping off instruments at both schools quickly, it's still probably a 2 hour round trip.

I finished my master list of needed parts for all of these schools' instruments a couple of days ago and got all the parts ordered. Amazingly, most of them seem to be in stock. I also did a sort of partial cleanup of my messy workroom - mostly in order to find little packages of needed parts that possibly already had been purchased in the past. Actually I found quite a few. I threw everything into one big cardboard box, regardless of brand of needed part. The room looks a bit better, and I am encouraged to go on and finish cleaning it up once the repair storm subsides. So far we've cleaned up the open part of the barn, Mrs bloke's room, and half-heartedly cleaned my room. Things look a little better out there.

A lady is showing up with her Alexander French horn later this morning and then I think Micah Everett - who teaches low brass at Ole Miss - might be bringing his instruments later, along with his son ...and they might do some fishing.

Since this seems to be degrading into a stream of consciousness post, my most gratifying repair in the last couple of weeks was an Elkhart Indiana era Conn model 79h medium large bore F attachment trombone. This model was the equivalent of the Bach 36B. This was the largest bore model that still accepted a small shank mouthpiece. The slide was terrible and the bell section rotor assembly was clanky. Otherwise it featured only a few dents and some gleaming original lacquer. Once I removed some outside slide dents that came out pretty nicely and figured out that the upper inside tube was curved, unsoldered that tube from the other inside tube, mounted it on the lathe, and straightened it, the slide ended up being a really nice slide, and it was really pretty easy to get the rotor and thumb lever to quit clanking. The dents were easy to remove, and the owner ended up with a darn nice somewhat rare vintage Elkhart instrument. It's the only one they own with an F attachment, so it ended up also being handy for the next show they had to play (yes, they are sort of a hand to mouth income professional) which featured F attachment range pitches. It was actually an instrument that they owned but they had never played due to the slide's condition. A former student simply gave it to them as a gift.
These users thanked the author bloke for the post:
York-aholic (Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:06 pm)
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

For this high school, I pulled all the sucky brand 35-year-old instruments first. I finished all those tonight. Tomorrow it's all Yamaha marching baritones and mellophones. Don't misunderstand me: I find those Yamaha things to be quite annoying, but at least they're thinner and easier to straighten back out. The annoying thing about them is getting their valves to work again when actually they aren't even damaged, but simply don't work. I'm going to circle back and hit five Jupiter marching mystery horns (there are two sizes of cases, and I honestly don't know whether they are marching baritones, mellophones, or euphoniums), and then do their five sousaphones.
So far, I've managed to freestyle through the repairs without my parts order having arrived. Pretty soon, I'll run into a roadblock whereby it's going to either be having the right part or not having it, unless I decide that I want to make stuff, but I really don't like making stuff. I like ordering stuff that someone else already made. I don't see any point in making something that I can buy, and only see a point in making things that I can't buy.

... my goal is to get this pile of middle school and high school instruments from the same town dumped back off into the schools on Monday, and get started on the next school. One of the next schools already paid us prior to doing their repairs, and most of their stuff is woodwinds - which Mrs. bloke already tore into, so it seems like I ought to do that pair of schools next, particularly since we have their money already.
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

This morning I cleaned stuff out of one of those Eastman front action compensating E-flat tubas and also a jp 3-valve compensating baritone, instead of working on school instruments. The owner of those instruments brought their son and a friend to fish while I worked on those things.

I tried out the Eastman, and I think it's a darn good instrument. Anyone buying one should be aware that the bows are thin. If you've owned or played the English made Besson version, expect the Eastman to be more like the thickness of a Czechoslovakian or handmade instrument. If you own one and dent it, I think it's probably a really good idea to warn your repair guy that it is thin.
The takeaway from this is NOT that it's thin and that thin is bad. Thin "is what it is". My Miraphone 98 is very thin. That's existential, and neither good nor bad. The takeaway IS that this is a good model of instrument. They were complaining about the high B natural with the valve combination two and three being flat, but I just play that (C-sharp) with valves two and four on my f tuba without even thinking, and the same combination completely fixes the tuning on this e-flat.

I know the three plus one setup, and it's difficult for me to get my head around putting a compensating fourth valve next to the other three valves on the front and on a four valve compensating instrument. Further, holding the fourth valve down with my pinky as an anchor and operating the other three also feels awkward. It's just that it's yet another system to learn, and I already know three or four other fingering systems, maybe five.
I think I could deal with a front action compensating for valve instrument if they just put the three valves on the digits and put the fourth compensating valve on the right hand thumb. I believe I could do that, and I believe I could latch on to that pretty quickly.
Everyone's different, and everyone's mind works differently, and everyone's experiences are different.
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

I got to the marching mellophones tonight. The first one was the worst one. It was one of those daddy pliers ones. The top and bottom threads on the first casing were messed up bad, the first casing was messed up bad, the second casing was messed up bad, and the number one piston was ruined. I had ordered a number one piston for it which came today. They only took about 30 minutes to get all three valves going up and down correctly, which was nice, and the rest of that horn wasn't busted or beat up except for the Bell being folded back, so it wasn't as bad as I expected. The bottom male threads in the number one casing are still pliers-coned out, so tomorrow I'm going to form the end of a junk brass slide tube into a cone, jam it over those threads, and shrink them back down to cylindrical.

I have several of these, then five sousaphones, and then the school is done, but one or two of those sousaphones are Jupiter's with the lower mouth pipes torn off and the main tuning slides torn away from the first valve slides, so those two are super suck horrible. I guess that's why they brought them to me, the "darling of the sousaphones".
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

Today is going to be a fun day. Replacing missing first slide trigger mechanism parts on marching baritones.. One of the makers decided that thumb saddles aren't cool enough, and they have to be wonky and have spring triggers. Of course spring triggers, lack of cleaning, taking them outside, not venting the pistons, and dropping them on the ground is a wonderful combination for making sure that spring triggers work perfectly, especially on 4-in long slides.
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

So everything is done for one particular school system's Middle School and High School except the sousaphones. I finished up all the marching instruments tonight. All of the Jupiter marching instruments have these first valve spring triggers with Minibal-like (Taiwan-made) links.. what a great idea for marching instruments... triggers that rely on (basically: half of a water key) spring power - when their slides are full of lime and filth, the pistons aren't vented, and tiny little (M2X.25) screws and tiny little links which loosen and fall into the grass. :eyes:

I sort of had enough parts to replace all of the missing trigger parts on all of those things by digging into my (real) German Minibal link supply, getting out my taps and dies, and cutting off pieces of 3 mm all-thread stainless steel to use as action rods....so tedious and seemingly so pointless...
... some of you have mentioned that you love doing this kind of crap. I don't mind doing it on my own instruments or on some players instrument that I know is going to make a difference in their playing, and also isn't going to be torn right back up, but screwing around with crap like this on instruments that are going to be dropped on the ground or on the pavement at least three times this year each just seems really dumb.

Most of the other makes of marching baritones and marching euphoniums feature a double stem with a platform dividing them for the felt underneath the top cap. Jupiter decided to make a one-piece tall thing out of aluminum with aluminum threads in the bottom. What a wonderful idea. :eyes: One of those things was rotted out at the bottom, but I was able to cobble together a Jupiter tuba valve stem, a Yamaha platform, and a Weril/Brazil/Dynasty top stem which I rethreaded on the bottom to 8-32. Voila. My other idea was to chop off the rotten aluminum threads, drill into the bottom of their thing, tap those same threads up into it at the bottom and screw a piece of threaded brass up in there with the same threads extending out in order to screw into the piston, but I think the thing that I improvised will actually last longer then their factory aluminum stems. Time will tell. Something else is that with their marching euphoniums they decided to use a special valve guide that isn't like the marching baritone valve guide and isn't like the sousaphone valve guide, but I was able to grind off the back ends of some Jupiter sousaphone valve guides, grind down their tips, and end up with something that works perfectly, and those alterations took about 15 seconds per guide. The most important thing is that when I encountered issues where I didn't exactly have all the pieces here, I came up with quick solutions, because this stuff has to be shoved out the door fast and it has to work... oh yeah: and neither the money nor the time to do chem-clean jobs.

A couple of their sousaphones feature the lower mouth pipe receiver braces jerked loose and the young scholars went ahead and busted all the braces that hold the main tuning slide and the first valve slide into a perfectly aligned box shape (critical alignment both of those slides to work, as they are both narrow bowed slides) so rebuilding all that tomorrow on those instruments should be joyous events. :smilie6:
pompatus
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:46 pm
Location: Central Texas, USA
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by pompatus »

When I was younger I used to be very interested in becoming an instrument repair technician. I still am, to a certain degree, but this time of year I certainly don’t envy you guys and the crunch you’re under to get school instruments “up to snuff”.

Bravo, to all of our techs in the trenches. Stay strong!
These users thanked the author pompatus for the post:
bloke (Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:39 am)
-Conn 4J BBb tuba with lexan Kellyberg mouthpiece
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

I don't know how long cooties last on these things, but something I don't do is to rub my eyes or pick at my nose or touch my mouth when working on this stuff.
...not "tech"..."ick"...
... but I don't suppose it's much worse than playing bad music... and people hire me to do that, so...
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

finishing up this same particular big bunch of instruments today with five of their sousas...
three done before dinner, and hope to do the last two (now) after dinner.
might deliver earlier tomorrow (2 hr. r/t) and reward myself my doing an easy-schmeazy (mostly ww's, which Mrs. bloke already finished) middle/high school.

If we deliver this full work van-load tomorrow, I'm thinking we won't notify the band directors...If they don't meet us there, no time-consuming polite chit-chat. :smilie8:
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

I'm finished with the school. I pulled the broken off brush of a snake out of the large end of a marching baritone mouth pipe tube going into the third valve, and I pulled a work glove out of the second branch of a sousaphone.
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

We got those instruments from that school system delivered both middle and high school. The work van was absolutely jam-packed.

I also scrambled through the brass instruments for that mostly-woodwind-repairs (another school system) middle and high school instruments today, so those schools are done and ready to deliver. The middle school band director worked in the back of a music store for some number of months decades ago, and micromanaged those repairs (in other words used the word "only" in their repair instructions to me) so those instruments are very well repaired "only" in the parts of them that I was told to fix (strictly cosmetics), but personally I wouldn't want to be handing them off to students in the condition they are otherwise in. Whatever.
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

Digging into the next school system today... another high school and middle school. I think I'll start with the sousaphones instead of finish with them, as they are the same makes mostly as those that I just repaired from the other school system, I've sort of got a routine going, and I know where all those parts are right now.
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

' just finished the worst of only two sousaphones (but a bwut-lode of tooberz) for this next school system...

...It's just like the other worst-of Jupiters with the lower mouthpipe torn off wrecked, and the main slide's braces busted and yanked away from the lower #1 slide.

Considering that I have SEVERAL of these here (and I'm "just me") the fact that Jupiter (KHS) has (had) less than twenty of those braces in stock...well...I don't get it.

LOWER MOUTHPIPE TUBE:

This one wasn't twisted, but (about an inch below the neck receiver) was folded flat and torn 3/4ths of the way around.

I got it opened back up, round, ends matched up, and (not patched, but) - again - silver brazed it all back together. That was a bunch of brazed-back together jagged edges.

Since someone on eBay sold me over 35 feet of THICK (1/16" thick) silver solder for cheapity-cheap, I used that stuff.

I also blobbed it on heavily OVER the cracked area, to make it even stronger than original. I neither ground nor filled off ANY of that...Again: I'm leaving it there for strength.
I replaced a busted-off bell screw after teasing the old one out, removed some pretty bad dents throughout, cleaned up all of this large reconstructed area, and - since the entire sousaphone is brown/no-lacquer - I just hit it with some not-particularly-gold-looking metallic paint, which actually blends in sorta ok with the "brown. I have to go back and check the (brown) bell for any needed bell crease removal, replace a busted case latch, and then on to the other one. This is another BIG load of $h!t...I have to keep movin' !!! Since we got the other school system's stuff delivered yesterday, I'm putting this school's REPAIRED stuff where these stuff HAD been.

bloke "yeah...We're real organized around here. :thumbsup: :laugh: "


Image
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

I just finished the second sousaphone for the next school where they tore off the lower mouth pipe, all of its braces are broken, the lower mouth pipe was all twisted, and all the braces from the main tuning slide to the first slide were torn apart too.

I can't do these too many days in a row, and have to move over to trombones or French horns or marching baritones or something, because I start thinking that the entire world is a bunch of H.G. Wells Eloi idiots, and there's just no hope. This stupid s*** is stuff that we never would have done 60 years ago, and - if we did - the other people in the section would have thought we were complete idiots, we would have received demerits that were on a chart on the wall, our parents would have been told they had to pay for it, our parents would have given us a whipping, and we would have made us pay them back for it. Further, our father would have referred back to the episode every time we asked them if we could borrow the car or have $10 or just about anything. In other words, it would have been a long-term and well-deserved shaming situation.

By the way, they also put a bunch of huge dents into the body, bent two of the bell screw flanges, lost a bell screw, creased the bell, busted three of the four case latches, and lost a finger pearl off of one of the finger buttons. Further, the inside of the instrument was absolutely filthy. It looked like dirt off the football field, rather than typical slime or lime.
User avatar
bloke
Mid South Music
Posts: 18420
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
Has thanked: 3600 times
Been thanked: 3908 times

Re: Don't try to understand 'em; Just rope an' throw an' brand 'em

Post by bloke »

LOL...
I got the two wretch sousaphones done...but am discovering how VERY wretched this stack o' 3/4 tubas is.
Post Reply