TubaForum.net

We seem to borrow so much of our technique from trombone players, because in the past a lot of trombone players ended up teaching tuba players. I even know some tuba players who were taught to "legato tongue", because they studied with trombone players. I guess that's okay, though I'm not sure it's necessary.

Emory Remington was a legendary trombone teacher and he taught his students to work on lip slurs across partials. I'm pretty sure that the reason for that is because those were the only real slurs they could do. Otherwise, they had to do the "legato tongue" thing which was mentioned in the previous sentence.

It seems to me that there are quite a few whole step and half step slurs that occur with the tuba which require particular embouchure precision to execute them smoothly... if not with every tuba, then with quite a few. Some of you are going to come back and say that you work on this stuff already, and might even say "Of course I already work on this stuff", but I wonder how many tuba players work on slurring across partials with the same valve combinations, but don't work on some of the difficult valve slurs such as from open second, third, or fourth partial to up a whole or half step. For that matter, valve trills (which we may not encounter on the tuba very much), but which can offer us a way to practice going back and forth between two not particularly smooth valve combination pitches.

I was taught those Remington across partial lip slurs as an essential “warm up” and used them throughout pre post-secondary school.
It may be that the times are changing, but by the time I left university, I had completely discarded those exercises from fundamental routines, and most of my slur work consisted of the popular Arban chromatic study, Jacob’s’ beautiful sounds exercise, and SAM from The Brass Gym, all very slowly.
I think the reason for the shift was probably because 2 of my 3 professors were big on the “song and wind” Jacobs pedagogy

I have to do that tongue thing when I'm slurring up from below Eb in the staff. From Eb on up, my horn technique lip slurs work fine, including for octaves. Below that, the combo of more air needed, more muscle strength needed, and focusing on it causing dystonia tremors, I need the delicate tongue thing. But I don't practice it. I only practice fingerings.

In the brass gym, which uses a lot of lip slurs from Remington, Slamma, Bai Lin, etc., I use a variation. The octave lip flips, and the major second ones above the staff reveal everything. The Joe Alessi extension of the full range Remington lip slur is a fun one to test how steady one's air can be across all partials.

Lip slurs help so much playing, even more than just smoothness.

russiantuba wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 8:37 pm In the brass gym, which uses a lot of lip slurs from Remington, Slamma, Bai Lin, etc., I use a variation. The octave lip flips, and the major second ones above the staff reveal everything. The Joe Alessi extension of the full range Remington lip slur is a fun one to test how steady one's air can be across all partials.

Lip slurs help so much playing, even more than just smoothness.

I'm not discounting their value, but why not alternate warming up on those difficult whole and half step slurs, which I mentioned in the original post? Again, we tend to derive all of our stuff from trombone players, and the reason they warm up on lip slurs is because that's the only slurs they've got.

I use lip slurs all the time and have been spending long hours practising them.
As well as breath attacks in favor of tongued articulation, which comes in handy, at times.

But I find myself tongueing fast slurred runs for clarity of timing and pitch and to avoid a general impression of sloppiness when using my big horn. (Insert link to rotax valves on another current thread)

Slurs that involve a change of partial seem to work much more precisely.
Maybe it´s a problem of finger coordination...

Comparing rotary horns to rotary tubas and slurring.
Even between one horn and another, the timing of a lip slur has to change because the rotor timing is different, no matter how little. Horn valves don't need to be vented because there isn't very much air that has to be shoved out of the way. I realize tuba valves, especially the 1st, are vented to aid in pulling/pushing for intonation, but it also makes slurring easier because you're not fighting that air pressure in the valve while it's moving. I can tell the difference, at my level, so surely those with a higher level of technique can also tell and that's why a lot of people vent all their valves.
When the valve bottoms out (or tops out) in its new position is when the chops have to arrive on the new pitch, and that takes timing. Timing that differs between instruments, even between two little bitty sets of French horn valves. To me, that is why lip slur timing between valve positions has to be learned.

yes to all, with these added factors: (capitalization for emphasis...not yelling)

LARGE BORE tuba valves benefit from venting EVEN IF there is no slide movement, because - even after only a few seconds - an enclosed circuit of air will cool, and releasing that enclosed circuit of SLIGHTLY COOLED air will (yes...with no slide movement) cause a "pop" against the embouchure.

The rotary-valves-to-embouchure-frequency timing difficulty thing is amplified from horn to tuba (just as with the previous) due to the scale (meaning "size") of everything being multiples.

timing with rotary valves: Flurries of pitches (whether scalular, arpeggiated, or whatever they are) are going to "be whatever they are going to be"...and happen so quickly that there's going to happen with the player whereby the timing is going to have to be as precise as that of a violin soloist (unless messy crap - that ends up being little more than an "effect" - is acceptable).