TubaForum.net

Stryk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 27, 2025 8:45 am

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 5:20 pm One of them is a vintage Alexander C with five valves which has been converted to right hand thumb, and with the typical noble sound

Thinking Bloke may take a liking to Alexanders if he plays them enough!

maybe if B-flat... Compare the tuning characteristics of your B-flat to your C instruments.

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Mar 27, 2025 8:51 am

Stryk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 27, 2025 8:45 am

bloke wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 5:20 pm One of them is a vintage Alexander C with five valves which has been converted to right hand thumb, and with the typical noble sound

Thinking Bloke may take a liking to Alexanders if he plays them enough!

maybe if B-flat... Compare the tuning characteristics of your B-flat to your C instruments.

Yep - the BBb is spot on, the Cs have some challenges - the 70s one way more than the new one.

@arpthark

Are two pics enough?

(requested to compare design to your own...)

Stryk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 27, 2025 3:51 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Thu Mar 27, 2025 8:51 am

Stryk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 27, 2025 8:45 am

Thinking Bloke may take a liking to Alexanders if he plays them enough!

maybe if B-flat... Compare the tuning characteristics of your B-flat to your C instruments.

Yep - the BBb is spot on, the Cs have some challenges - the 70s one way more than the new one.

My 1930s Alex has these issues:

Gs must be played 1-3
F#s must be played 2-4 if sustained
1-3, 2-3, 1-2 required for fifth partial D, D#, E
3 for E and A below the staff

Basically, a fairly flat 3rd partial and an incredibly flat 5th partial. I am able to play very in tune with these alternate fingerings with no slide pulling.

Since these old Alexes are essentially factory cut jobs, I think the problem likely lies in this area of the taper, where they used this dogleg to join up the MTS with the rest of the usually-BBb bugle:



I’d be curious to see what this area looks like on modern Alex 163 CCs.


@bloke

I'm pretty sure they just eliminated the horizontal slide and shortened the mouthpipe tube (along with circuits) for their factory cut-it-to-C.

recent-era ones?

I've played one - in new condition...

I can think of other C instruments I would choose, but (not planning on discussing the unsolvable, nor rehashing CC vs. BB or any of that jazz) I only put the pictures up because you asked for them...

If you want more, take some of yours, and I'll imitate your pictures.

Several repairs are headed in the same direction....

Both of that customer's tubas are done, today an assistant band director's Bach 32GO (free curb treasure!) was brought back from the dead, now has a wonderful slide, a really nice sound, a quiet valve and some new "diamond" braces, and LAST will be (for that same band director's school) three beat-up 3/4 tubas and a beat-up/no-mouthpipe 321 euphonium...



...purpose of that info:
letting you know that the Alex will sit around here for the next few days.
I hope the USPS gets your Schiff to you by then.

On a map (compared with Connecticut to blokeplace) this looks "close", but - realistically - the r/t burns up a whole day (and a whole day of bloke's old-man energy), so I'm not returning any of the stuff unless I'm returning ALL of the stuff (one trip).


oh yeah: The Alex C's rotors are quiet, and run smooth, and offer vacuum release sounds.

arpthark wrote: ↑Thu Mar 27, 2025 4:59 pm
My 1930s Alex has these issues:

Gs must be played 1-3
F#s must be played 2-4 if sustained
1-3, 2-3, 1-2 required for fifth partial D, D#, E
3 for E and A below the staff

That is the same as my 70s Alex except my F# is fine. I play my new Alex with the same fingerings as the 186 I had in college and the one I have now - 3 for E and A below the staff. The mid line D is easier 1/3 if sustained, but also workable just lipping.

I have found that whether or not the 3rd and 6th partials are flat, many of the old school central European tuba tapers (including the kaiser baritones) feature basically an In tune open fifth partial, but - when one descends through the fifth partial pitches - the second valve interpolation is flat, the first valve interpolation is quite flat, and then 1-2 saves the day by the second valve being added (which inadequately flattens the first valve), and it's closer to in tune.

In B-flat tuba language, that would mean that the open D is in tune, the neighboring C sharp is flat, the neighboring first valve C is flat, and the neighboring B natural - with 1-2 - is closer to in tune..

With the knowledge that has been acquired in regards to bugle tapers and tuning tendencies, my huge Miraphone model 98 is much easier to keep between the ditches compared to the old school instruments, though (mechanical tuning adjustments not really related to acoustical phenomena) I do have to adjust my first slide on the fly from all the way in to 2 inched out - obviously depending on which pitch I'm playing... As I set the length for 2-4 B natural with the fourth valve, I'm playing the neighboring C with 1-3, so that particular pitch asks for the first slide to be out yet another half inch - though fourth valve C is very much able to be favored with the embouchure.

Even though - with its valveset bore - it's actually beyond "six quarter" in size, it's remarkably easy to play in tune......but the trade-off is that - if I'm not buzzing in tune - it's not particularly forgiving.

@arpthark

photo by technimotorola