What makes the sound?

[the elephant]

This thread. This whole thread. Old problems merit old solutions. IYKYK…

[bloke]

This thread. This whole thread. Old problems merit old solutions. IYKYK…

This requires that the lips be open, and then - hopefully - closed.

[bloke]

The internet is full of fine, even world famous players who say or have said the stupidest things on how playing a brass instrument works. Like breath support using the diaphragm.
But even players with a science background mostly have little knowledge about the workings.
It took 350 years for Galileo to be rehabilitated by the RK church but Simplicio just needed to take a small step to the next gullible believers and he has got an even easier job. They still believe the silliest things even when a pressure wave hits them in the face just about everyday.

I've requested more than once or twice that you post some recordings of your own playing. It doesn't need to be anything fast or with a bunch of really high or really low stuff. Maybe (??), just post one of the less difficult Tyrell etudes and maybe pick something out of that Bordogni book - where everything's written in the tuba range... or perhaps just one thing of your own choosing.
It's just fine to lay on a couch - tapping stuff into textboxes from a phone, and allege that those who can are stupid, but also show us how those who know apply it.
Maybe, do it today.

[the elephant]

You;re stupid.

No, YOU'RE stupid.

Well, you're stupider.

Guys, come on… this is stupid. Did neither of you learn anything from my posting of the sacred enchiladas?

[the elephant]

I can almost smell them… much like this thread…

This thread. This whole thread. Old problems merit old solutions. IYKYK…

[Mary Ann]

We is ALL stupid, and that enchilada looks very good.

The best teachers are very often not the best players, because the best players did not have to figure out how to make it work. So the best players maybe can teach, but they can only teach those who are already successful at the basics, and who need the fine points of how to express musically. Those who have had to figure out how it works are much better teachers for others who have not been able to figure out how it works by themselves.

[the elephant]

Well, it seems that your raison d'être is to excrete bile all over yourself and then be offended by it. Bless your heart, you poor thing. I'll leave this conversation with this thought: Santa thinks you're funny.

[bloke]

@der Ingenieur
I didn't see the link to the video...(??)
Perhaps you inadvertently forgot to link it...

If not, please DEMONSTRATE to us how you APPLY that upon which is insist is - you know - "the thing".



@the elephant
You completely get it that this is a huge troll. You're way too clever to be trolled, so I've never bothered to try. LOL...I don't see trolling as being particularly referee-able...much as with TV "rasslin' " matches.
(Mark - the official ref. - will eventually grow weary of this, and shut it down...and no, I would never tease a dog or a cat.)



Hey...Maybe the engineer believes they're trolling me, too...(??)

[Jim Williams]

I can almost smell them… much like this thread…

This thread. This whole thread. Old problems merit old solutions. IYKYK…

Sorry, but being from Belgium I would politely but firmly send this back to the kitchen.
We don't eat stuff so gross looking, but thank you very much.

Cheese makes me barf. My lips open up to let it out, then they close. The process then repeats.

[bloke]

I can almost smell them… much like this thread…

Sorry, but being from Belgium I would politely but firmly send this back to the kitchen.
We don't eat stuff so gross looking, but thank you very much.

Cheese makes me barf. My lips open up to let it out, then they close. The process then repeats.

courageous opinion, James. I admire courage.

just fwiw:

epic troll stats.png (2.49 KiB) Viewed 5876 times

[MiBrassFS]

.

[bloke]

I'm studying my professional-grade kazoo, and attempting to determine what the waxed paper is striking.

(btw, and just fwiw...I wasn't fooled into buying a "step-up" kazoo, when the music store guy in the plaid jacket came out to my school.)

[MiBrassFS]

.

[UncleBeer]

Oh yeah? You'd prefer a delicious Belgian delicacy, like stoemp, eh? Here ya go.

Stoemp.jpg (46.96 KiB) Viewed 5817 times

Sorry, but being from Belgium I would politely but firmly send this back to the kitchen.
We don't eat stuff so gross looking, but thank you very much.

[bloke]

Thanks!
I was blowing into the small end, whereas I'm pretty sure many blow into the large end.

[bloke]

most clear video of this to date:

I have no idea how they managed to video this from nearly straight on, but I suspect that continued increased technology and miniaturization made it possible.

It's my belief that (finally) understanding and embracing what's actually occurring will assist brass players towards more efficient and more beautiful tone production.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/718066434408692

[Mary Ann]

I commented on her post a couple days ago, saying I noted that she was rolling in for the higher note. THAT is what is not taught.

[bloke]

I know we go 'round-and-'round...

...but I was never taught (rolling lips in and out, based on range) that but (after not too long) realized (based on what I found to be successful) that I do it...and that it's how I'm able to play high and low with much more ease/success.

I'm - overwhelmingly - guided by sound.

Golf swings feature at least twenty (a hundred?) aspects, but to attempt to be aware of all aspects at once and glue-or-tape them together into a smooth golf swing (nearly unavoidably) results in a terrible golf swing. Golf swings should start out with hitting the ball and - once that is accomplished - revisions are made (one or two at a time) until a consistent/excellent golf swing is achieved. This can be achieved by paying someone a bunch of money, or by studying videos of excellent golf swings, video-recording one's own golf swings, and noting the differences...and yes, there are fancy computer programs, for those whose self analysis skills are lacking.

Golf swings are very visual, music is very aural (with "stuff brass players do with their mouths" not very visual at all - other than a few very obvious things).

Musicians need to start by doing a few things right (ie. "make a noise in - very roughly - the proper way"), and add on more "right" things only one or two at a time (so as to avoid stress, as making music should not be stressful), and to be able to continue to improve without overthinking.

Keyboard, percussion, fretted string, and bowed string players can learn a lot from videos. Woodwind players can learn a lot about hand position from videos.
Brass players really need to be intuitive and notice how trying things with the lip muscles, air speed/volume, and size/shape of the oral cavity has to do with the type of sound and the success one has achieving the type of sounds they seek to produce (and sure, along with having very strong concepts of just what types of sounds they are seeking to achieve). It's not the easiest thing for teachers to ascertain what all is going on with a brass player's mouth, throat, and lungs/diaphragmatic muscles.

One of Arnold Jacobs' students (discussed in one of the online videos) went along for years without Mr. Jacobs noticing that the student was not using much of their lung capacity - as the student's lungs were so large. (ie. they were "getting by") After years of teaching this person, he (and the student) finally figured out what was going on, and (of course) the student ended up having an even easier time playing (vs. - again - "getting by"). ...but (considering how analytical/intuitive Mr. Jacobs was, this is a perfect example of why musicians (mostly) need to be teaching ~themselves~. btw...I myself am very much like that particular student of his (high lung capacity, so less of a tendency to take advantage of all of it).

[MiBrassFS]

.

[1 Ton Tommy]

The whole business of resonance in a closed pipe is fascinating. Raynold Schilke went to a lot of trouble finding where the nodes and antinodes are in a trumpet and that told him where to put the braces and other things I don't know about like how far down the bugle to put the valves, etc. I don't know if he terminated the column at the lips and I don't know what he did with regards to lead pipe taper, mouthpiece back bore and other variables I haven't even though of.

But I believe that the closed pipe which resonates does not begin with the lips but somewhere in the mouth which with the sinuses are a resonant cavity, the size and shape of which are controlled by the tongue and how one opens the throat. I have noticed that when I have a cold and my sinuses are plugged my sound suffers, perhaps because the resonant cavity is smaller and I'm not compensating for it. See this Sarah Willis video I posted a few days ago of her playing horn in an MRI machine. Its pretty amazing how much the shape of her mouth changes with pitch.