Kanstul 33S

[Tubajug]

I've got a Kanstul 33-S here and wanted to see if anyone else had experience with them.

The one I've got here plays very sharp. I have to have the main slide almost completely out and it's still a bit on the sharp side. Every pitch that requires the first slide has to have anywhere from 1" to 3" of pull to get it in tune.

The fifth valve slide seems to need a trim. It's a little too flat to use as a flat whole step, but not enough pull in the slides to use as a 2-3 combo.

It's a beautiful instrument (rose brass bell with gorgeous engraving) and has a great sound. The valves are super fast and quiet and the slides all move very well, I just can't figure out the tuning issues. Thanks for anything you can offer!

[MiBrassFS]

Valves including the rotor are in good alignment?

Nothing stuck in the tuba? Packing peanut, valve oil bottle, etc.

[Tubajug]

Valves including the rotor are in good alignment?

Nothing stuck in the tuba? Packing peanut, valve oil bottle, etc.

Doesn't play stuffy at all, nice, big, open sound, just really sharp.

[Mary Ann]

Deeper cup?

[MiBrassFS]

So, the reason I suggest checking valves, etc., is that I’ve had some great luck. Most won’t be this lucky, but you never know!

I bought a Willson 3400 from one of the DC premier bands that played “fine,” but the pitch was weird. The valves had double felts under the caps. Once they didn’t, the pitch straightened right out. Dandy tuba. My big rotary BBb played really weird when I first got it. Ran a snake down the leadpipe and out popped a packing peanut from the bottom of the valve set. Everything fell into place. Terrific tuba. Finally, I once knocked a 1964 nickel out of a Mira 186 for someone else. Totally different tuba without the nickel! It had been in there long enough that it had turned green.

Might be worth a look if all else fails.

[Tubajug]

Deeper cup?

I tried quite a few different mouthpieces with it to no avail....

[matt g]

How many of these were made? I’m guessing it’s not a large number. This could be some sort of “Monday” build and it just needs some modifications to get the intonation in good order. Probably worth finding another local tuba person that’s a solid player and having them noodle around on it while you mind the tuner.

[arpthark]

I'm sorry, but I'll take it off your hands for you as a favor next time I'm in Nebraska. (Currently never made it farther west than St. Louis, but you never know.)

[donn]

I have one of those. I can play it in tune, but I can play it out of tune, too.

[edit} I really don't. But I do have a tuba! It's a 66-S.[/edit]

[Tubajug]

I have one of those. I can play it in tune, but I can play it out of tune, too.

Does yours require as much pull on the first slide? How far out is your MTS? What mouthpiece do you like for it?

[Tubajug]

I'm sorry, but I'll take it off your hands for you as a favor next time I'm in Nebraska. (Currently never made it farther west than St. Louis, but you never know.)

It's only another 7 hours! C'mon over!

[donn]

Does yours require as much pull on the first slide? How far out is your MTS? What mouthpiece do you like for it?

I pulled the 1st slide by accident this afternoon when I wanted the 5th. I think that's what it was -- there's a bunch of slides up there. Frankly it was long ago and far away I played this tuba with anyone. (I do play it a lot, but just at home.) I don't remember experiencing problems with intonation, particularly where I'm sure it isn't me (I have bad playing habits in the medium high range that contribute to flatness up there.) I don't play really high notes on the tuba, so have no basis for comment on how that it holds up up there.

I think the main point I can make here is that its intonation is flexible, especially lower in the range and/or with no valves. Some people play different than others, if I'm not wrong, and some have to pull out farther than others with the very same tuba; if that's so, I bet this tuba would be a good one to demonstrate that principle. It isn't a unique phenomenon, of course - I have felt that my BBb Kalison is somewhat the opposite, but you sure can play flat or sharp on it.

This afternoon when I was checking it out on the tuner, I put the main slide 3.5cm out [edit] but I like 2 cm better. [/edit] The 5th is about the same as the 3rd. The slide settings could probably use some work, other than 1 which seems to be about right and 2 which can't go farther in. I do not pull slides while playing (except on the Kalison where there's a jigger that I push for a couple bottom end notes.)

Lately I've been using a Faxx fhb 7B copy, but also like JK 5A, Dillon F1B (that's obscure), Marcinkiewicz H4, Glow-in-the-dark Kellyberg, etc. A ways back I went through them all, trying to find one that would (as I now see it) make up for my poor mid-upper range playing, and generally found little difference (i.e., I suck equally on all.) The Faxx 7B and the JK 5A would be at the top of my list of commercially available options if someone were looking for a mouthpiece, but probably regardless of what bass tuba.

I love this tuba, but like other tubas I have had, the accumulation of water is a gret annoyance. It has several water keys, there's yet one more valve branch that needs one, and there's the weird right angle bends at the valve section that have been discussed here before.

[A couple edits applied.]

[2nd edit] Also, while it looks very much like the picture, there is a little minor denting in the bell and 1st bow. If you'd like to put some dents in yours, to see if it helps, I could plot them out. [/edit]

[drboyblue]

Is the Kanstul 33s still for sale?

Kary Lyon

[Tubajug]

Is the Kanstul 33s still for sale?

Kary Lyon

It was not for sale, I was just asking about intonation issues I was having with it. Sorry.

[TxTx]

I have a Willson compact Eb that took most of the main tuning slide to get it in tune. That it has a way huge receiver and all I had were American shank mouthpieces didn’t help, but it was way more than that. I visited a couple of other folks locally who confirmed that it wasn’t just me and that it played well otherwise, so I ended up having @UncleBeer lengthening the main tuning slide and now I don’t have to worry about the main slide falling out any more. He replaced the male tubes on the main slide, and I still have the original ones, so if by some miracle the problem goes away it can be returned to its “factory” configuration.

Eric

[bloke]

Just glancing at it, it appears as though they sort of ran out of room and perhaps boxed themselves into a corner. Because the tuning slide is going to hit your chair if you lengthen it any more, and - looking at the mouthpipe - I'm not encouraged with any strategies for bending one that's longer, it seems to me that bending a new inner bow (such as a fifth or sixth bow that is longer) might be about the only thing to do, but that's just at first glance.

Am I seeing that the bow behind the first slide could be taken off and either a longer one fabricated to replace it or someone really talented could braze another inch and a quarter of tubing onto both ends and reinstall it?

[Tubajug]

Thanks for the replies. Even now, the MTS almost touches the chair, so yes, lengthening it would mean it goes even farther out. I have some 0.656 tubing and crooks here, maybe I could fashion some sort of loop for it at some point.

It's just such a nice looking horn, I really don't want to start torching it apart if I don't have to.

That 5th valve length still has me stumped though... I had a friend play it and he confirmed the same thing (that it's too flat for a flat whole step and not long enough for the 2-3 combo version). He did find that it worked to play a pitch down in the lower register (I forget which one), but that seems like an odd setup if your fifth valve is only useful on one note way down low. It could be shortened, but again, I'd hate to booger up such a nice-looking tuba.

That first valve still needs a ton of pull for 95% of the notes to play in tune as well. I guess it's just one of those horns you have to learn how to "steer" when you play. To be fair, I also haven't played it quite as much as my Rudy (that Rudy is just so nice to play!).

[donn]

I took the photo over and checked it against mine, just to be sure we're talking about the same thing - and I think, almost but not quite.

[edit] of course ... because mine's a 66-S Eb, and yours is a BBb. Sorry! [/edit]

20250227_203028.jpg (194.21 KiB) Viewed 10269 times

Aside from the 5th valve, something that seems kind of grossly different is the inside bugle loop, in back, where yours comes far closer to the main bottom bow. Perspective can be tricky, but ...

[pjv]

There were a couple of versions of this horn. Originally with slanted valves, they later lined them up in the vertical set-up like both you gentlemen have. Tubajug's model is the only type I've seen pictures of in the vertical set-up. The way Don's 5th is set-up is new to me.
I'm no expert. I just happen to keep a meagre horn porn collection on my computer.

Whatever you do; cut is cut. Be patient and play around on the tuba before you do anything drastic.

[Tubajug]

Thanks for posting a picture of yours, @donn . It does look like that bottom inner bow is different.

Is your 5th valve a useable flat whole step? Like I said, mine is an odd length...