Smaller tubas -- under 4/4 size

[catgrowlB]

There is a lot of fascination over new, large tubas --particularly 6/4 Yorkaphones. They are huge, and resonant and catch the eyes and ears.

But I want to talk about smaller tubas; mostly 3/4 and 7/8 size tubas. I find them super easy to play and hold, even if they make a smaller sound than larger tubas.

The small Yamaha 10X tubas, King 1140, old Conn 10j, Miraphone 282, MW 10, Olds O-99, etc. The list goes on.

I played a couple gigs on my old Elkhart BBb (identical to the old Pan American and Conn 10j), and it was just right for ceremonial music. Pretty much point and shoot pitch, easy response, nice deep compact sound, in a light compact contrabass tuba. About as 7/8 a tuba gets.

I've found the other small tubas really fun to play. They are like go-karts. The big 6/4 tubas are more like big Mack trucks.

Discuss your favs, or if you use smaller tubas for anything.

[bloke]

CONFLICT OF INTEREST:

I really like the JP copy of the Cerveny Arion.

If I hadn't built my compact Holton, I would have bought one of those for myself.... I might have souped it up with a fifth valve (??)

I've never played the original Czech version, so I just don't know how close the copy plays to the original, but I really like the copy - as well as the quality of the copy.

The conflict of interest is that I sell them.

This model a B flat instrument.

The new Miraphone Hagen 3/4 thing might be a better instrument, but it would be hard to imagine that it is.,,,

[ronr]

CONFLICT OF INTEREST:

I really like the JP copy of the Cerveny Arion.

If I hadn't built my compact Holton, I would have bought one of those for myself.... I might have souped it up with a fifth valve (??)

I've never played the original Czech version, so I just don't know how close the copy plays to the original, but I really like the copy - as well as the quality of the copy.

The conflict of interest is that I sell them.

This model a B flat instrument.

The new Miraphone Hagen 3/4 thing might be a better instrument, but it would be hard to imagine that it is.,,,

+1 on the JP copy. I’ve been playing one (yes, purchased from Bloke) for about 10 years and it’s the best instrument I’ve ever played, and I own and played a 186 for about 30 years.

[Tubeast]

My MW 2011 FA sounds bigger than it looks.
At 17mm it has a Euphoniumesque kind of bore.
Very fun to play, but a pain to drain, which is required more frequently than with "normal" horns.

With all those modern grunt-o-phones at bores between 19 to 21 mm, I wonder what a modern (i.e. of a design younger than 5 years) example of smallish F-tuba might be.

[Matt Walters]

If I played BBb instead of CC, I would buy and play the Miraphone BB494 Hagen that has the smaller .740" bore. Also would want a Conn 10J as my beater horn.

Speaking of Conn 10J, Conn offered that as a 3 valve CC tuba. I've had one example of that tuba come in the store several times over the decades. Bet most of you didn't know that was once available.

[tubatodd]

There was a time when the Cerveny Piggy CC was super popular. It punched above its weight class. I had one for a brief period of time and wish I still had it.

[prodigal]

I started on a Miraphone 184 that was comfortable to play.

[Mary Ann]

CONFLICT OF INTEREST:

I really like the JP copy of the Cerveny Arion.

If I hadn't built my compact Holton, I would have bought one of those for myself.... I might have souped it up with a fifth valve (??)

I've never played the original Czech version, so I just don't know how close the copy plays to the original, but I really like the copy - as well as the quality of the copy.

The conflict of interest is that I sell them.

This model a B flat instrument.

The new Miraphone Hagen 3/4 thing might be a better instrument, but it would be hard to imagine that it is.,,,

Not of course having played the JP, and likely it is a piston so I won't -- VERY likely the 494 out-oomphs it, because although they call it a 3/4, I think that is only "in comparison" to their larger tubas, and anyone else would call it a 4/4.

[bloke]

The jp379B really isn't a 3/4 either and it is rotary. (ie. OLD-DAYS definition of 4/4, yet disguised - via compact design - as a 3/4)

Tuning characteristics are remarkably good, the rotor casing fit is superb, and the all nickel tubing slide alignment is as well. A couple of years ago they even added on a slide adjustable right hand thumb ring gadget which is pretty cool. Other upgrades (from a few years ago) include a nickel-brass mouthpipe and nickel-brass 4th-rotor-to-main-slide connector (see pic).

The Bell pancakes out to only about 15 inches, but the throat and the rest of the Bell along with the body are more like the size of a King or possibly (??) slightly smaller such as an old York/Holton overall size and taper.

The bore is pretty large even though the tuba is sort of small. It's just under .8" (being that this is a trademark bore of Cerveny, and it is a Cerveny copy).

It doesn't sound like a 3/4 tuba, and - truth be told - I don't have much use - in all the applications of my various types of engagements - for the sound of a typical 3/4 tuba. Experience tells me that - had Cerveny designed this model with a smaller bore - the sound would have ended up being more terse and less marketable. It's piggyish, but - in my view - much more useful... particularly being built in B-flat, and thus offering a usable "low F" with only four valves... As seen, there is ample room for an aftermarket fifth rotor.

It reminds me quite a bit of a long discontinued compact Meinl-Weston model called "Handy" (model 18), but I believe I like this Arion copy better than that old M-W model. ...It's probably pretty easy to tell that this is NOT a tall instrument:





long-discontinued Meinl-Weston "Handy" model 18
...certainly not the same, but similar:



The 379B (as well as my also-short-stature Holton) is also an ideal "covered orchestra pit" tuba (as so many legacy/restored vaudeville-era American theatrical stages have been enlarged in the past two or three decades - defining that a portion of their pits are now under the stage floor). I knew a bass trombone/tuba doubler who (again: decades ago) owned a M-W "Handy" 18, as they were mostly a Broadway-shows player.

[bloke]

I'm a really big Miraphone fan, I'm glad to see a whole series of new B-flat tubas (whether or not I care for any of them personally), am a grateful Miraphone owner, and I would love to try the smallest instrument in the series, sometime.

I can't see myself owning/using most of the models Miraphone makes, but the same goes for any other manufacturer.

... The two B&S instruments that I own and love:
They don't even make them anymore.

Two other instruments that I really love playing:
I stuck those together myself.

[Mary Ann]

For me, squashing the tubing like that to make it more compact so they can call it a 3/4, means I can't roll it over my knee to get it on my lap, which had I known ahead of time, would have eliminated that layout in my current stable. I can roll a stovepipe wrap easily and don't have to actually lift it.

[tofu]

I think you find a lot more variety in 3/4 & 7/8 instruments in what they do well and what their manufacturer really intended them for as well as the quality of build. From horns aimed at younger players to horns intend for small ensembles etc.

Several years ago after an auto accident I was not going to be able to lug around a full sized horn during rehab of 6-9 months and I bought from Lee S a Lidl 3/4. Superb build quality with 4 rotary valves. Lee had said when he had one apart he thought the valves were better quality than Miraphone - a pretty high standard as I own a couple rotary Miraphones. Really played well - with well aligned slides and very good intonation. Had a nice sound and was an excellent horn for quintets and small ensembles. The 16 inch bell helped and it was easy to hold - weighing only - 16 lbs. Came with a nice fitted Jacob Winters case which made it somewhat bigger than a euph case to haul around. For me the shortcoming was it just could not project to the back row of even a medium sized hall. It would work in a section and was excellent for small ensemble and small space.

I already had a Miraphone 185. This honestly is the superb can do anything 7/8 size horn. It is the one horn that many of the greats said they would never ever sell -such as Jim Self. Both he and Tommy Johnson used their 185s on a ton of movie soundtracks. Bobo had one he used a lot as did a lot of other pros. According to Norm Pearson of the La Phil - the famous 1971 LA Phil recording of The Planets there were two tubas used on the recording.

Roger Bobo: playing Mirafone 184
Tommy Johnson: playing Mirafone 185

They sound superb. Of course those 2 guys could made a galvanized garbage can sound good.

Miraphone never made a lot of 185’s and it seems it was mainly Pros and the Tennessee Tech Tuba ensemble that bought most of them. Some of them have good intonation and some can be squirrelly, The BBb are much better intonation wise than the CC versions. It is an excellent solo horn and shines in quintet. It can be used for large ensembles assuming the player has the willingness to put in the effort and the skill to steer it. It projects like no tomorrow and records exceptionally well. It can play mean well - but you do have to remember it’s limits if pushed too hard. My handmade ’69” vintage has a lovely sound and hopefully one of these days it gets down to a certain repair guy in Tennessee who has a newly made Miraphone Bell awaiting to be installed. If anybody is going through Chicagoland to TN it would love to hitch a ride down there (it’s even willing to kick in gas money ). I didn’t buy it years ago to be an old man horn, but it is nice to haul to rehearsals when I don’t feel like hauling a larger horn and still knowing it’s amazing flexibility can handle anything thrown it’s way. Great low range really pops out and it sings in the high register.

[bloke]

I wasn't trying to sell anything...
... And nor was I trying to buy anything from anyone.

Where are the complaints about left-handed French horns and all 4/4 fiddles being the same size?

[bloke]

Particularly if it gets towards the fall - when I'm not as swamped - I'll be glad to install that bell on your tuba if someone that you know is heading south and then back up towards you again. That's what I agreed to do for you.

[jtm]

For me, squashing the tubing like that to make it more compact so they can call it a 3/4, means I can't roll it over my knee to get it on my lap, which had I known ahead of time, would have eliminated that layout in my current stable. I can roll a stovepipe wrap easily and don't have to actually lift it.

Did that little Scherzer C work out for you, for sound and handling, or did you need to move it along?

[tubaing]

Eb

[bloke]

Eb

Almost always 4/4, so you and I are now both in the doghouse.

[kingrob76]

My Getzen CB-50 is perfect for a "smaller" horn, especially with the changes developed by Lee Stofer applied properly (including MAW valves). It's smooth, easy to play, and punches above what you'd expect from a its dimensions. I can recommend them without hesitation, but I will note they are not lightweight instruments - it's build to be around for a long time.

[iiipopes]

In college I played a college-owned Yamaha that was a little smaller. It could have been either a prototype or predecessor of the YCB621: .689 bore; probably a 15 to 16 inch bell. Good tuba. Not great, but good: decent tone, played in tune with itself. After graduation, a few years later I borrowed it to record a slapstick bass track for a blues album a friend of mine was recording. I was completely out of practice at that point. Fortunately, the song had a break at the end of each verse. So I told the engineer to play the tape until the break, hit pause, and let me blubber my lips a little bit until I was ready. Then we played the second verse. And we carried on in this manner until the end, so that the track, albeit recorded a verse at a time, only took one long take. No, it didn't have that large of a low-end tone, but this song didn't need that. It was the horn for the song. A few years after that I asked about it. Unfortunately, the storage was in the basement of the music hall. They had a flood, and the particle board shelves the instruments were stored on collapsed and ruined several, including this tuba.

[catgrowlB]

My Getzen CB-50 is perfect for a "smaller" horn, especially with the changes developed by Lee Stofer applied properly (including MAW valves). It's smooth, easy to play, and punches above what you'd expect from a its dimensions. I can recommend them without hesitation, but I will note they are not lightweight instruments - it's build to be around for a long time.

The Getzen CB/G-50 is a fantastic horn. Plays and sounds great, and well made. A compact 4/4 tuba --- the bell, outer bows and valveset bore. There is some talk about where these tubas and their parts were actually fabricated. Does Lee Stofer know for sure where Getzen had them made, and where the parts were made

If you consider it a smaller tuba, that's fine.