B&S Symphonie F

[arpthark]

I recently acquired a B&S Symphonie F tuba. Every good thing you've heard about them (at least based on this model) is true. Evenness across registers, intonation, response, all very good. I would say it has about 10% less "sparkle" than an Alexander F but 10% more consistency.

This one has five valves, but as someone who cut their teeth on 5-valve B&S F tubas, it's like returning home after a long time. I sold my old 5v B&S JBL Classics F almost 11 years ago.

There's been a bit of work done on this one. The fifth valve has been converted to right hand thumb using Miraphone parts, but it's a really nicely-done conversion so I can't complain about that. (Original LH thumb parts are included if I ever want to convert it back to stock.) The leadpipe was also replaced along with the bottom bow guard. Linkages and paddles have been replaced with modern B&S paddles and 3B links, which is a nice touch, and they're silent. Not a perfect cosmetic instrument, but a really fine player, and definitely something I would like to hang on to long-term.

With the fifth circuit pulled almost to the limit, I can just barely get a flat-enough low Bb, so I would definitely like to extend that a bit. I'd also like to vent the valves. Otherwise, it's pretty much good to go.

Bad pic in the living room with all the kid stuff around:

[bloke]

I'm not getting up out of my chair to check this left hand instrument holding strategy...

...but if it's reasonably comfortable to grasp the instrument up somewhere around the 5th slide, that's where I installed a SUPER-comfortable #2 slide trigger for my (only 5 rotors) F cimbasso.

Since you only have 5-valves, if you successfully installed such a trigger, you would have SOME (not all) of the tuning advantages of a 6-valve instrument...at least, you might have a viable 2-4 B-natural. (The F-sharp should be true with 2-4 and with no triggering.)

I'm pretty sure you would also wish to trigger #2 for the (only option with 5 valves) 5-2-3-4 low G (which would also be sharp without some sort of adjustment).

I gave you a source for longer pieces of tubing for your 5th circuit, but there are European sources for brand-new (in this case: 17mm bore) inside/outside tubing as well.

[arpthark]

Yes, a 2nd valve trigger would be a nice touch for sure. My JBL F had one, too.

[bloke]

When I started playing the cimbasso a lot, I found that the valve combinations (where we could otherwise fudge the length of our instruments on contrabass tubas) are several steps higher on the piano keyboard with F length instruments, therefore far more often played, and more easy to hear when they're not spot on in tune...which is what prompted me to go the second slide trigger route on that instrument. I've posted this too many times before, but - only about a week after I put that thing on there - I encountered the Verdi Hebrew slaves chorus in a concert. It's in F sharp, isn't it? ... and the cimbasso part is super exposed, so that trigger saved my butt. It was a difference between people probably raising their eyebrows otherwise and - with the trigger - coming up to me and saying nice things afterwards.

[jtm]

Congratulations! I think I read on @TheBerlinerTuba's great page about Symphonie's that earlier models had a shorter 5th valve circuit and that's a common alteration. If I remember right, the thicker brace feet also suggest it's older.

I've been delighted by mine. As Joe has hinted, it makes me sound better than I am, and it's a joy to play. As an amateur, I may never have a reason to look for any other bass tuba. Mine also has 5 valves. It came to me with an excellent (fast, quiet) main tuning slide trigger, but I'd really prefer to have a trigger on the 2nd valve slide, just to make the main tuning slide easier to use for overall tuning.

[prodigal]

My college's Symphonie was absolutely the most enjoyable tuba I've played in my 35 years of playing all variety of instruments. The newer PT-15, well not so much, it fell a little too big.

[Mary Ann]

Where do you find this stuff, at prices you are willing to pay? It seems that you do at least a daily search on sites that don't show up when I search. Not that I want a B&S F, but you come up with a LOT of stuff.

[bloke]

Where do you find this stuff, at prices you are willing to pay? It seems that you do at least a daily search on sites that don't show up when I search. Not that I want a B&S F, but you come up with a LOT of stuff.

He does actively search daily, he's in a pretty good area, and he doesn't mess around. He rounds up some cash, jumps in his car, and goes. That's how to do it. I bet you a donut that he would tell you the same.

As technical and as Internet as everything has become, people don't like boxing up big things, they don't like shipping big things, and they really prefer cash to any sort of giizmo whismo dismo venmo shinmo online paying service.

[MiBrassFS]

.

[arpthark]

Where do you find this stuff, at prices you are willing to pay? It seems that you do at least a daily search on sites that don't show up when I search. Not that I want a B&S F, but you come up with a LOT of stuff.

I have slowed down recently due to my job, but I have saved searches enabled that can automatically search huge swaths of area on Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist, and besides that I browse public surplus sites, government auction sites, and other lesser-known local auction sites regularly. That combined with keeping my finger on the pulse of what the community finds interesting (I really think of them as being in three categories: vintage horns, "pro" horns, and [for a lack of a better term] "community band" horns, along with always-sought-after models like old big Holtons, Conns, the ever-popular Kings, Miraphone 186s, and the stock that frankentuba folks use for their builds) allows me to post a lot of that kind of content. I also don't share everything I find, because I have to have something on the back burner, right?!

And Joe is right, but this particular tuba actually came to me instead of me going to it.

[bloke]

I did the same thing until several years ago, and then I started looking at how deep the collection is in the attic, and how old I am.

There are some really nice things up there, but they all need several or quite a few hours of work... And every time I get fairly far into one of them, I get a big stack of repair work from customers.

I actually have gotten some of them fixed up and sold, and a few others are sort of close.

The same thing will eventually happen to Blake, even though this is a side gig for him.

[jtm]

I heard a financial journalist wondering if she had been buying too much stuff based on the opinions of people on the internet that she didn't really know? She concluded that it had been a time of grief, so yes, probably so.

Do I have a Symphonie F because of people on the internet that I don't really know? I never played bass tubas in college, and the first I'd heard of Symphonies was here, so ... yeah. Still, it's a fantastic tuba, and I love playing it. Those internet people I barely know were right.

[bloke]

I heard a financial journalist wondering if she had been buying too much stuff based on the opinions of people on the internet that she didn't really know? She concluded that it had been a time of grief, so yes, probably so.

Do I have a Symphonie F because of people on the internet that I don't really know? I never played bass tubas in college, and the first I'd heard of Symphonies was here, so ... yeah. Still, it's a fantastic tuba, and I love playing it. Those internet people I barely know were right.

You need one of those bland sounding ones with piston valves that requires a lot of work to play, plays badly out of tune, and costs $12,000. Once you fold the bell, get it fixed, and it's no longer shiny, you can then say you only care about the sound.

[arpthark]

Two month update, love this tuba, would play everything on it if I could. It's so easy to pick up, play, and just... sound good without me doing too much extra work. It's not as sparkly-sounding as my Alex F, but that tuba (like any Alex) requires one to put in a lot of work to stay in shape and sound good on it. I'm at the stage of my playing where I need something a bit more accessible and practical. Plug-and-play.

I found the carcass of an old Miraphone "Standard" 3v BBb for stupid cheap, and I am going to use that (same bore) to extend the 5th valve circuit a bit so I am not having to favor low Bb flat by 10-15 cents.

It's the perfect tuba for my klezmer group. Do I wish it had six valves? Sometimes, but I learned F tuba on a 5 valve horn and it really isn't a crazy adjustment. I'll put a 2nd valve kicker on it some day along with venting the rotors.

Blokepiece solo #1 is a great match for this horn.

[bloke]

It's still my favorite instrument, but I'm playing mine less and less.
Even if I happen to encounter a Hector Berlioz piece and I'm hired to play one, I've sort of moved over to my big fat compensating euphonium with an oversized mouthpiece to play those pieces... though the cimbasso mouthpiece that I'm marketing offers a (without having to be an athlete) secure range on the B&S F instrument at least up to a B flat (demo video).

I'm still taking it to John Mueller's weekly tuba quartet rehearsals, but I finding that I'm using it on the quartets that I really don't like very much - those muddy ones - which are voiced too low. I'm working towards being more secure (button mashing wise) playing the compensating euphonium down into the low tuba range, so that I can just bring one instrument to play the so-called "Tuba 1" parts. When my brain is working - and I have unisons with the "Tuba 2" parts, the big fat euphonium sounds good on those passages..

[Mary Ann]

Not that I'm in your league, but I found, being a horn player, that the stuffiness of my compensator was not a problem once I figured out what to do, and I think it would be easier to play on most tuba1 parts in a TE quartet. Doesn't have the sound of the Star but is definitely playable. My problem is the pistons which clearly I am never going to be lickety-split on.

[hrender]

I have slowed down recently due to my job, but I have saved searches enabled that can automatically search huge swaths of area on Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist, and besides that I browse public surplus sites, government auction sites, and other lesser-known local auction sites regularly. That combined with keeping my finger on the pulse of what the community finds interesting (I really think of them as being in three categories: vintage horns, "pro" horns, and [for a lack of a better term] "community band" horns, along with always-sought-after models like old big Holtons, Conns, the ever-popular Kings, Miraphone 186s, and the stock that frankentuba folks use for their builds) allows me to post a lot of that kind of content. I also don't share everything I find, because I have to have something on the back burner, right?!

This is the way.

[bloke]

Not that I'm in your league, but I found, being a horn player, that the stuffiness of my compensator was not a problem once I figured out what to do, and I think it would be easier to play on most tuba1 parts in a TE quartet. Doesn't have the sound of the Star but is definitely playable. My problem is the pistons which clearly I am never going to be lickety-split on.

Assuming you're responding to me, there's not any stuffiness, it's just mashing the right buttons (in that range) when I'm sight reading. LOL.

Some of the parts drop down to pitches like C, B flat, A flat, etc. when occasionally reinforcing a fourth part ("Tuba 2") melody. (The smart thing to do would be to circle those parts and just let the fourth part play those melodies alone...but it never hurts to become more familiar with an instrument, particularly when it involves reading sheet music and playing that instrument.)

All four of us are retreating to smaller instruments and finding the overall sonority to be better. The two highest parts are mostly being played on English baritones, I'm playing the next part with a very large euphonium with a contrabass trombone mouthpiece, and the fourth player is playing the lowest part on one of those little Yamaha 621 F tubas. Using these instruments just about eliminates the tuba quartet typical woofiness and really promotes clarity.

My favorite arrangements are the ones that are actually written for trombone quartet, because they are all pitched a bit higher. Thus they avoid sounding muddy. Somehow, I think that BETTER arrangers have written more trombone quartets than have written tuba quartets. LOL

[arpthark]

Bumping a thread from last year. I've had this horn for a year and I love it. I play it all the time, especially in my klezmer band. Yesterday at a gig I did a jazzy little version of "Bei Mir Bist Du Shein" by the Andrews Sisters on this tuba:



Anyway, the only thing really holding it back was the short fifth valve tubing. I just ordered parts from Germany to extend it, so I'm pretty happy about that.

It hadn't been a huge problem for a couple reasons: most of the playing I do on it is in the staff, and fortuitously on the klezmer tunes where I'm doing more of an oom-pah line, they're in sharp keys like G or D, so low Bb doesn't come up much.

I used it recently on Shostakovich's Russian Easter Overture and it worked really well with that. The trombones really liked it.

[bloke]

I lengthened mine with salvaged tubing from an old Miraphone trashed model 1270 "Standard" (top action 3/4 from the mid-1970s).