vintage King BB-flat nomenclature

[bloke]

What did they call this model back in the H. N. White days when they put fancy engraving on the bells?

I'm looking for the model number...
... possibly 12XX, but that's only an assumption
specifically and only the model that matches the specific description below:
- one piece 22-in upright bell
- shorter than the two piece later models, but taller than the current one-piece model
- three or four pistons (just like those from later models), yet in a SLANT configuration
- mouth pipe tube feeds directly into the first valve casing (main tuning slide AFTER the valves)
- fourth valve slide down low on the back
- upper slides on 1, 2, and 3 configured in a straight line.

I've been told that Don Butterfield owned and played the three valve version...

...or - of course - you can post a whole bunch of jazz that doesn't have anything to do with my very specific question..

[donn]

See it on here? https://www.hnwhite.com/lowbrass

[bloke]

Thank you.

No sir.

[hrender]

King 1216 (see page 53 here) bears some resemblance to the horn you're describing.

[hrender]

FWIW, there's a not-great picture of a 1216 on the old site (attached).

There's a picture of King Monster Bass on horn-u-copia which may be a 1215.

[edfirth]

I don't know the model number but Don Butterfield did have and extensively use it. Walter
Sear told me he got it from a guy in the West Point band while at Walter's studio in N.Y. He had those things that looked like a kid's bubble blower loop on the first and third slides rather than flipping them as he thought the slide lubricant would find it's way to the valves.Connie Weldon had one too. Played it with the Boston Pops, and still had it and used it at the first international tuba symposium with her tuba ensemble from U of Miami. Those are the only two I've ever seen. Best to all, Ed

[PlayTheTuba]

King 1216 (see page 53 here) bears some resemblance to the horn you're describing.

The top action tuba (picture on the left) is what I assume Matt Walters was referring to as the best 3 valve BBb tuba he's ever played.

I would also assume that the front action King BBb is just as good. Seeing as the modern top and front action Kanstuls were still quite nice and comparable, in my experience.

[bloke]

Thanks, folks...

Blake had just identified it for me as a 1216.

[bloke]

Notice that King (and other American makers) thought of the 4th valve as a "register valve", and not really to be incorporated into the normal playing range of the instrument...

...thus the same 1-2-3 circuits set-up as with the 3-valve models (#1 and #3 circuits too long - as a 1-3 tuning compromise).

I've shortened a whole bunch of #1 and #3 circuits on old US-made 4-valve instruments.