Endurance

[Dopey]

I plan to reach out for lessons locally, specifically lifting this topic but I thought I'd ask here as well.

I am an adult amateur player. Ever since returning I have found myself 'losing my lip' by the end of rehearsals. At first I thought this was natural lack of endurance that would return with time and regular playing. It's been years however.

I went to college playing Bb tuba, then had probably a 7-9 years or so with minimal to no playing before picking up an Eb tuba about a decade ago. I'm 37 now.

Aside from Summer/Christmas breaks I regularly play in two brass bands, 1900-2130 Monday and Tuesdays. Outside of this, I usually do manage to play the horn at least a few times between rehearsals. Playing an Eb Tuba. This has been pretty consistent for 3 years now.

While my range, tone, and general musicianship has improved these years, I still find myself regularly feeling as if I have 'no lip' the last parts of rehearsal.

Some pieces seem to trigger it faster than others, some days faster than others.

I've never been one to have a warm up routine. I just pick up and play at rehearsal, and at home work on relevant sections. Partly lack of time, and partly somewhere I got in my head I didn't want to end up with a 'ritual' before I am 'ready' I could play so I've avoided such routines.

My first suspicion was over pressure. Which I try to actively think about and ensure I am not, even using a device at home increasingly regularly to ensure I do not have too much pressure.

In rehearsals, or at home it's annoying. But in performance, it is not fun knowing an exposed part of piece is coming up and lacking confidence my lips will survive until then. So it's something i'd like to improve going into 2026 season.

Has anyone else encountered this when returning? Can it be as simple as incorporating long tones, or specific exercises? Or is it more likely physical (pressure, age(??)) and best I start with a teacher/lesson? Appreciate any advice

[bloke]

Band rehearsals can be taxing, because there's a lot of tuba playing involved as opposed to orchestra rehearsals.

I don't usually offer playing advice, because it sounds preachy. I'm not a teacher, and I've seen teachers get into rhetorical pissing contests in such threads...but here goes anyway;

Long tones are dreadfully boring. They do tend to strengthen the muscles on either side of the mouth as well as improve tone production and endurance, but my advice would be to not bother with them unless you're going to do a crescendo/diminuendo with each one and do so while keeping the intonation between the ditches (challenging).

Run through all your scales and - if you don't know the minor scales very well - teach those to yourself and run through those as well. This is what pianists do, and they do it in very strict time. It takes a really long time too do all the scales both legato and articulated, so maybe alternate their articulation styles.(??)

I would encourage you to consider these exercises as "practice" rather than as a "warmup" or a "routine". Practice should be for improving - rather than some sort of thoughtless "routine", and practicing these exercises requires quite a few minutes to get through - whereas warming up one's lip muscles and one's instrument takes about one or two minutes.

Of things to practice that aren't written down on paper, scales and long tones are probably the two most beneficial things to practice. There are lots of other things to practice, but everyone's time is limited. Pick some other things that you think will benefit your playing and mix them in and out of things that you practice that aren't written on paper (arpeggios, lip trills, some of the gymnastic things that the gentleman in Cincinnati has demonstrated on YouTube, and what have you).

Continue to suspect that you might be using too much pressure against the mouthpiece rim. It's something that probably most of us catch ourselves doing.

[gocsick]

As another amateur player who never had a lot of formal music training... I can say that every time I've had issues with endurance on tuba or sousa, it has been due to tension and not letting myself relax.. If I am on good form and stay relaxed, or have a beer or two during the gig, constant moving basslines for 3+ hours isn't a problem.. When I am tense or struggling I can chop out after an hour.

I recently started playing trumpet and baritone horn more frequently... and switching back and forth between high and low brass bright back some of the tension issues. I was feeling the note in my throat and jaw instead of coming from my chest.. if that makes any sense...A lesson with a good teacher and a bit of focused practiced on my part and my sound is much more open and relaxed.. The analogy that worked for me was to swallow the note.. Working pedals helps me... I've been playing (playing badly mind you) Bordogni etudes down the octave... Wade also made a fun exercise based on the Munsters theme in descending keys available...

[bloke]

I like the previous post.

Worry/nervousness, concern can cause us to get worn out.

I no longer feel any of that when I play the tuba. I guess I've grown comfortable with the truth that what is going to happen is going to happen. The only time that I literally get worn out from playing is when there's some epic gig that involves a tremendous amount of playing at a tremendously high volume level with a rehearsal (that was also long) shortly before that gig, and (also) in the fall after I haven't been practicing for at least three months because I've been repairing horns all day and collapsing into the bed every night... Curiously, those are the same sorts of gigs where I have to pay attention and not mash my face against the mouthpiece.

[Mary Ann]

At 76, 92 pounds, and poor health, I can play tuba forever on the Eb part. Most of it is realizing that I do not have to buzz, and should not buzz, but form the shape / size of the aperture for the note I want to play. The lips, particularly the upper one, are relaxed in the middle. The only muscles needed are to hold them in place for the size of the aperture needed, plus the corners do have to be firm.
When I was a horn player I got to be pretty good, but I never had any endurance. Never, ever, and the more I practiced the worse it got. I usually could not make it all the way through a rehearsal, and I squashed my lips something awful, even on 2nd and 4th horn. Only after learning tuba and the whole concept of just the size of the aperture, did I figure out how to play. Eventually people also figure out they need to roll in slightly to play high, and roll out for low (Roger Lewis gets credit for this concept.)
I saw this youtube video yesterday, and plan to send it to my trumpet playing friend, who has never had any endurance on his trumpet, and I'm certain that, for him, it is the cause. It could be a factor in the higher reaches of the Eb parts.

[1 Ton Tommy]

I was a come-back musician 20 years ago after a 20-year hiatus. And an unlikely double on trumpet and tuba has improved my range and stamina on both instruments enormously.

I had last played tuba in trad jazz groups and came back on trumpet at the request of a friend who needed one for a jazz combo. Unlikely, I know. At first I had no endurance or range on trumpet. At a jam I buttonholed another trumpeter and hired him to teach me. We did some odd things: like putting the bell in a sink full of water and making steady bubbles come out. Then scales and long tones and Arban's exercises, then chord notes in all the keys, arpeggios, 7th chords, diminished, augmented, blues scales and chords, etc, etc. After about a year I no longer worried about my endurance but rather if my chord notes matched the chords of the tunes. They often didn't. But by then I could improvise a little. So I went to more jams.

This went on for several years with my endurance gradually improving but my range not so much. I got a seat in a community orchestra playing 3rd trumpet and got some classical confidence. Then I moved to a new town and the new orchestra I played in needed a 1st trumpet (gulp). I woodsheded the parts and played some of them down an octave. Meanwhile my hundred year old tuba sat whimpering for lack of attention. I mentioned to the conductor in passing over a beer that I had a collection of old horns including a hundred-year-old tuba.

"You have a tuba?!"

"Uh yeah."

"Bring it next rehearsal."

I brought it after shining it up a bit and found myself doubling on tuba and trumpet, which I am still doing all these years later. Actually more on tuba these days as there are more good young women playing trumpet and no other tubas. This double had improved my trumpet range enormously. High Cs are no problem now. D I can't find the fingering for. One season I played Bach on a borrowed piccolo trumpet. Ds are no problem on that.

Here's the deal: The trumpet embouchure fits neatly inside the tuba embouchure in such a way that when my trumpet lip is tired I play tuba and get a massage from the big tuba mouthpiece.

I don't know if this would apply to the OP but playing with other musicians who are out of tune will wear my lip out faster than anything else, whether tuba or trumpet. My final word is -- Put in the time. Every day. It WILL pay off.

[Dopey]

Thanks all for the tips.

@bloke you are right, the brass band rehearsals is taxing. Very few rests on most pieces compared to other orchestral, or even wind ensembles i've been in. Additionally I am the usally the sole Eb in the more competitive(more difficult pieces), and player the upper part in the other group. Coming as a Bb player, this has been an ongoing challenge to open up the range over the years.

I also remember a quote from Rick Denny on about playing high register, if you think something is difficult you'll rarely be disappointed. I am sure this, at times, is part of it. 'Dreading' an upcoming spot at any sign of losing my lip only makes it worse.

It sounds like aside from continuing to be conscious of my pressure, next step would be adding some structured exercises into my practice along more consciously thinking how I am forming my embouchure.

Thanks for the video @Mary Ann . I've also listened many times to Baadsvik about embouchure as well, and Rick's old tubenet post on the topic. While I can 'play' a Eb above middle C -- I'd consider my usable in performance range to end around middle C/D however. I've been working to keep the same quality of tone this year as well as I go up and above the staff. So the embouchure has been something I've been experimenting and trying to focus on, to ensure I am not pinching/forcing tones. Part of this I do try to spend more time playing parts and licks on the upper half of the staff -- as I do think a good chunk of it is just spending time in that range to; This probably also further reduces my endurance compared to below the staff playing.

[bloke]

It looks like I didn't read your original post carefully enough.
We don't need our high register very often as tuba players, but when I find that mine has weakened a bit, I go back and play through trombone or bassoon books where they are written. When I start pooping out, I quit - to avoid doing things wrong.
After I'm rested, I go back and do it again. Maybe a few hours later or maybe the next day.