New to using a stand and my upper back HURTS!

[anadmai]

Over the weekend, I borrowed a stand for my Eb Bass. For the two years I have been playing bass, I had decided I didn't want to try a stand...but here we are. I want to give it a go and see how it affects my playing when it comes to the overwhelming tension I deal with.

The first thing I noticed with the stand is how much the area between my shoulders and at the base of my neck hurts.

Saturday - I did a light practice and then a 3hr coaching session and when I attempted the same thing on Sunday, I was HURTING.

Monday, I went straight for the heating pad while I was working. Monday night at rehearsal I was okay.

Took two days off of playing for MH reasons. My warm up this morning... yeah... I'm hurting.

I'm trying to adjust the stand to find the right height, but I'm a big baby and do not like it when my back hurts. I usually deal with lower back issues, not this upper back nonsense.

Need to keep figuring this out. Am I doing something wrong?

[bloke]

Please try this:

For that specific design/size/configuration...

TRY resting the tuba on your LEFT thigh (assuming you may be between 5'9" tall and 6'3" tall...??), and then micro-adjusting the tilt of the instrument and the positioning on your LEFT thigh to find the best angle and the best spot. I can play my 3+1 E-flat comp. (held in this manner) for hours.

(no playing stand)

[anadmai]

I'm a tall girl. 5'11". I fit within those size parameters.

I really do not want a stand. It's another thing to carry.

Will give that a try and see how things fare.

[bloke]

best of luck with this...

[the elephant]

Dana, I am not that tall (6'2" or 1.88 m), but I have short legs and a very long spine. This causes me to have to hunch over painfully when holding just about any tuba ever made. Setting it on a chair corner causes the mouthpiece to hit me in the chest.

After messing with playing stands for a few years, I gave up on them. (This was for many reasons, not just height adjustment.)

Since I started playing the tuba at the age of 14, I have always naturally had to rest the tuba on top of my thigh, as Joe recommends. I set the bottom bow on the thigh that is mouthpiece-side. For a front-valved tuba, this is the right thigh, and for a top-valved tuba, this would be my left one. This puts the mouthpiece to the side and too high up, allowing me to tilt the bell correctly and bring the mouthpiece over to be centered between my legs.

However, the slight twist in my spine to do this gives me great pain in my lower, right back after decades of this. (I own front-valved tubas, so they sit on my right leg, and that causes me to twist my spine toward the right a little bit. I sit with my right leg slightly forward, left to the side a little.) I have never discovered a solution to this, as it is the only comfortable way for me to sit, and that causes the pain. It has never been an issue until the last few years, now that I am getting older. I normally just work on touching my toes in the shower with hot water running down my back, holding that position for as long as needed.

That is it. No other issues. Using a playing stand took care of that right away. It also took care of blood flow issues from having a 30-pound Holton 345 squashing my leg for nearly two decades. However, there were so many other issues with using a stand that I eventually stopped using it altogether.

When I play a Sovereign or an Imperial tuba, I rest it on my left thigh and tilt the bell towards my right. Are you attempting to play with the bell pointed straight up?

Don't do that.

Best of luck.

This playing position works very well… for me. See if this can help you reach the mouthpiece without stooping and causing lower back pain. It causes me a little, but not nearly so much pain as when I rest the horn between my thighs,

[anadmai]

When I play a Sovereign or an Imperial tuba, I rest it on my left thigh and tilt the bell towards my right. Are you attempting to play with the bell pointed straight up?

Don't do that.

As a lifelong euphonium player, no. I am not a straight up and down player. That's one of the reasons why I have shied away from stands... I'm trying to get the stand as far left as possible.

This is a search and destroy mission.

[bloke]

extraneous information - not helpful for you at all...but that's just how I roll.

The ONLY 3+1 (compensating) top-action I own that STILL is uncomfortable (with the LEFT thigh strategy) is my old thick-sheet-metal Besson BB-flat WITH it's 24" RECORDING BELL installed (outdoor stuff). Even this big BB-flat (with it's 17" UPRIGHT bell attached) is comfortable with the left thigh strategy.

The 24" recording bell is a BALANCE issue (arms, not spine) only (for obvious reasons).

I believe this is why very FEW of the Besson recording bell compensating tubas were 3+1 compensating, and why most of them were only 3-valve compensating.

[anadmai]

So cool.

If I had to own a BBb, I'd want one of the 17" Besson/B&H model.


I have been doing the "Left Leg Thing" for years. My only issue is I have issues keeping the horn steady.

[anadmai]

Even this big BB-flat (with it's 17" UPRIGHT bell attached) is comfortable with the left thigh strategy.

Now I'm going to go and have to search for photos.

[Mary Ann]

One more thing in the thought process. Something changed in your posture and / or head and neck angle. Figure out what that is and put it back, however it works out to do that.
I realized at one point that tubas tend to have a straight-in leadpipe, and since I can't hold it in the air, I had to angle my head so the cup hit both lips. I had to tilt my head backwards to get the lower lip to even touch the cup. My neck killed me for years.
then I figured out it was an angle problem, and fixed that so that I don't have to tilt my head back to play.
I would guess you have encountered something similar by using a stand --- the tuba is out in front of you leaning towards you one way or another, the leadpipe angle is different, and there you are with your head and neck straining in a way they did not have to before.

[tadawson]

I've found that chair height can also be a factor. This last season, I ended up being stuck on all different types/heights of chairs at the places we played, and noted that if I ended up in a low, cheap folding chair, that that caused my knees to be higher, and I'd both get a sore neck, and have iasues getting my embochure right/stable. If your seating has changed, that can be a factor, and being a fairly tall guy with a BBflat 186, ended up toting a chair to get that consistency and comfort back. (And as I get older, getting up out of a low chair increases the chance of a face plant . . .)

[scottw]

Funny, but, for me, a playing stand does exactly what I want it to do: take the weight off my knees and thighs, provide a solid platform to eliminate balance problems, makes page turning more secure, and assure my posture is good. I am 5'10", similar to your height. I use a cushion behind my back [highly recommended, carry it in your case to protect the bell better], which moves me very close to the tuba [BBb Mirafone 186] with the stand [Baltimore Brass]. This stand will go low enough for those pitiful plastic folding chairs, or high enough for the nice padded ones. Having that adjustibility eliminates awkward bends of the neck, which produces that tension you are experiencing? The only possible downside for a woman would be if you wear a dress, because the stand must be right up against the front of the chair to work properly.
Possibly, you are using the wrong stand? You don't specify which. Some have a funky design [DEG, Jupiter?], some have high legs [K&M] that force you to place your feet awkwardly [and avoid tripping over it!], and a few more I've seen used. The BB stand works flawlessly, is reasonably priced and guaranteed for life.
I carry a very compact Nillsen Magic stand and the BBC playing stand in a canvas satchel with a zipper and sturdy handles, along with assorted junk such as tuner, small stand light, oils, etc. It's all very portable and lightweight.
Takes a minute to get used to using it, but you can't go back once you have success.
scottw

[anadmai]

Good question.

It’s a BBC stand. Their manager is a good egg and was I happy to give them the business.

Going to give Bloke’s suggestion a try while I also try to get used to the stand as well.

Search and Destroy.

[Grumpikins]

A different option you could try; the Neotech tuba harness.

I bought one because I started doing a xmas caroling gig each year. It's very comfortable. Last summer i also used it with my bell front king in community band because we sometimes stand up for a tune or two. It worked really well both sitting and standing. It also gives me the freedom to shuffle music, chase it when the wind blows hard. I dont trust it to go completely hands free. Plastic clips. Only thing is you might need someone to assist with clipping the sling (your tuba) to the harness. It eliminates the tuba sliding in your lap also.

[scottw]

Good question.

It’s a BBC stand. Their manager is a good egg and was I happy to give them the business.

Going to give Bloke’s suggestion a try while I also try to get used to the stand as well.

Search and Destroy.

Chris is indeed a good one. As is the stand.
scottw

[ghmerrill]

What you describe is what caused me to make my own (adjustable) sit-on stand. The problem is getting that horn high enough so you're not hunching or bending forward while playing it -- which is what's putting the strain on your neck and shoulders. For even moderately tall people, the lead pipe just isn't high enough. Often a traditional stand is difficult/impossible to use since it puts the horn a bit out in front of you and so forces you to lean/stretch forward -- which is exactly what you don't want to do. You need to NOT WRESTLE the horn. It needs to sit on something (stand or your lap) that puts the mouthpiece in a position where you need to neither hunch down to it or stretch up to it and it's like the horn is floating in front of you with no weight and requires no effort to maintain -- you just play it and don't fight with it.

I don't have a magic and universal solution for this. I'd suggest that you start to approach it by using a relatively thick "lap pad" just to understand what the optimal height for the horn needs to be. That will establish the proper "attitude" of the horn without encouraging you to lean forward or hunch. Something like a closed cell foam garden kneeling pad -- or possibly two? Or take some kind of board and start adding folded towels to the top of it until you can sit holding the horn without ANY hunching/bending for an extended period of time. If you can get to that point, then you at least have a good "model" of what will work, and you can decide how to go about getting/making something permanent and portable that will work in the long term. But as part of this you MIGHT have a change of attitude about getting a commercial stand since that MIGHT end up being better/easier once you understand what you really need.

Just some thoughts. It took me quite a while to arrive at my own solution.

[Charlie C Chowder]

I am the short guy. I love my stands. They allow the tuba to come to me. But I sit on the front of the chair, back strait, feet flat on the floor. One leg of the tripod stand is between my feet and under the chair. My fat belly touches the tuba. If you sit too far back, the stand cannot get close enough to you. A sit pad is always with me.

I, like Bloke, have a converted folding piano bench as well. You can find them at your local thrift shops cheap. Make the seat six inches longer, pad it to the heights you need, and cover it to look good. But it is much bigger than a tuba stand.

CCC

[anadmai]

On my leg is too high. I feel like I’m reaching up.

I more than likely had the stand too low.

So my plan is the find it somewhere in the middle…and as like my life….keep the stand to the left and hold it like it would be on my leg.

We’ll see.

[bloke]

Try tilting it more on your left thigh or tucking it back closer to (as in INTO) your abdomen on your left thigh...or both of these.

These are not argumentative comments, but are attempts at being helpful.

Here's a forever-young volunteer-model.
They are 5'8" and probably 135 - 140 lbs.
(Some of you should be so lucky... )

This 3+1 compensating E-flat is a rare (1958) version with a detachable recording bell.
Due to the way they had to reconfigure it (to allow for the length of the detachable recording bell), the aftermarket 19" upright bell I fashioned for it defines that its a good bit taller than the common fixed upright bell versions, but - even though thicker brass and taller (thus heavier as well as much more top-heavy) - here she is modeling (and making a sound, just to be certain that it's actually not uncomfortable).

again: The generic forever-and-modern version with 19" upright bell features a much shorter bell, a considerably higher top bow, and thinner sheet brass.

She judges the playing position to be OK (though she would much rather be playing the bassoon or the oboe...actually: would have preferred not have been interrupted from her TV show).

Again...This is NOT a "why can't you do this !?!?" post, but an "are you trying it like this?" post.

[ghmerrill]

Just looking at that picture, I can feel gravity pulling that big bell down on my right side as I struggle to hold the horn and play it.