NWRTEC tubas

[je]

I attended NWRTEC in Boise last week and took some time the first day to try out various tubas. There aren't many opportunities to try out instruments on this side of the US, so even though there were only three vendors (in separate rooms, thank goodness), my horizons were significantly broadened. I have been curious how my E♭ tubas (Willson 3400S and Yamaha YEB-632IIS) compare to similar F tubas, as well as how my CC tuba (Willson 3060) stacks up against others.

Vendors

- Eastman Winds had the EBC836 and EBC834 CCs, EBE853 E♭, and roughly five Fs.
- Rose City Instruments had roughly eight Sierman tubas, three of which were CC. I'm happy to have a new tuba service/sales option within an 8-hour-drive radius of my home town (you easterners have no idea how good you have it).
- Dunkley Music had an assortment of Yamaha tubas/euphoniums, Willson euphoniums, Shires trombones, and a Wessex Kaiser baritone that people couldn't resist trying. This shop is also an Eastman dealer, and they made an effort to not overlap demo instruments with those in the Eastman room.

F tubas

My online research has led me to favor the sound of F tubas like the Meinl Weston 2250, Yamaha YFB-822, and Miraphone 1281, i.e. large-bore piston 5-valve tubas. Willis Music recently posted a short video demonstrating three of Eastman's new F tuba models, and the EBF862 was my clear favorite. So that was the first tuba I tried. The Eastman rep told me that this tuba uses the Willson Merlin bell (the same as for my CC tuba), though the manufacturers' specs claim the Merlin bell is 10mm smaller in diameter, and my eyes said that the bell on the 862 was manufactured using a different process and/or sheet thickness that results in a smoother surface. In any case, it says something about the scale of the 862 that a similar bell is used on a large CC tuba.

My very first impression of the 862 was good. But then I tried out the low range, and the notes from C to pedal F were so anemic that I pulled out a tuner app to check intonation because something felt off. And I came back to the tuba later to try a different mouthpiece (Laskey 30G EU -> 30H EU) to see if that had any impact. The low range was really disappointing.

Dunkley Music had a Yamaha YFB-822, and this tuba immediately put to rest any notion that F tubas necessarily have anemic low ranges. Fantastic response and tone across the full range. I liked this tuba nearly as well as my Willson 3400S, with the caveat that the angle of the valve cluster forces tipping the tuba further to the side than I would prefer.

CC tubas

I really didn't like the Eastman EBC836. I was surprised by how well it played above G1, and by how poorly it played C1-G1. Upon returning home I tried a friend's 836 and had the same impression, so this wasn't a fluke of the demo instrument.

My notes for the Eastman EBC834 include the words "predictable", "sterile", "boring". On the positive side, this tuba was consistent, but to my ears it lacked soul. Your mileage may vary; I've seen people here say that of Yamaha tubas I love the sound of.

I tried three Sierman tubas, and my notes are scant for the Infinity and Skylark models, because the Galaxy model dominated my interest. The Infinity didn't make much of an impression, good nor bad, so I think it might be a solid choice depending on what sound a tubist is seeking. The Skylark made an incredible, deep, full sound, until I pressed any valves; not a fan. But the Galaxy. Oh my, I loved this one. The sound reminded me of a Kaiser BB♭. Response and tone were consistently excellent, and I didn't notice any significant intonation issues (didn't use a tuner though). Looking back through forum discussions I see that the Galaxy design is based on the B&S PT6P (which apparently has a reputation for being inconsistent); my quick perusal of the B&S website suggests that the 3198 is substantially similar. Ergonomically the only quibble I had was with the position of the main water key.

E♭ tuba

On a whim I tried the Eastman EBE853. To my surprise, I didn't like it, due to what might be characterized as a pinched sound. It played evenly throughout the full range, and intonation seemed fine, but it put out less than I put in.

[bloke]

I think it's great that there are more models, and as far as China and politics are concerned, I really don't view the German government as being any better of a friend of the United States than the Chinese government, so WTH on those sorts of points of view.

Assuming your reviews are on target, it reinforces my observation that there really aren't that many really great models of tubas, even though my tastes (based on your admitted preferences) don't exactly line up with yours.

Thanks for the observations.

[PlayTheTuba]

...
On a whim I tried the Eastman EBE853. To my surprise, I didn't like it, due to what might be characterized as a pinched sound...

I can see (well hear) that. Thank you for the post and some of the fun facts regarding the Eastman EBF862 F tuba.

[Sousaswag]

I don't want to sound like I'm telling you that you're wrong, but I do wonder:

I've played several "show demo" tubas that were also not good players. I wonder if something was/is wrong with those particular instruments you didn't like? Maybe hastily assembled, out of alignment, or some other thing.

Whatever the case, maybe they just aren't a good match for you. You're certainly spoiled with excellent Willson models!

[je]

I don't want to sound like I'm telling you that you're wrong, but I do wonder:

I've played several "show demo" tubas that were also not good players. I wonder if something was/is wrong with those particular instruments you didn't like? Maybe hastily assembled, out of alignment, or some other thing.

Whatever the case, maybe they just aren't a good match for you. You're certainly spoiled with excellent Willson models!

Your skepticism regarding my takes on these tubas is warranted; I question some of the things I observed too. It's entirely possible that my perspective is overly limited due to only having played on the order of 20 tubas total, whereas you and others on this forum may have played hundreds or thousands. I can play well enough to tell whether a tuba is working with me or against me, but I don't have the breadth of experience to know when to wrangle good sound out of a squirrelly tuba, as I suspect people are doing with most 6/4 CCs. In the case of the Eastman EBC836 I was able to try a friend's tuba, and hope to do the same with an EBE853 a bandmate plays.

Another possible explanation is that I've figured out how to get good low-range sound out of my tubas, and the skills don't transfer to some other tubas. But I do fine with two Willsons, a Yamaha, and a King, so it's not as if my playing style is hyperspecialized. Maintaining stable pitch in the low range seems to differ between my tubas, but I don't have to do anything tuba-specific to make them speak well.

Mouthpieces might matter too, but the ones I used (Laskey 30G and 30H) seem quite versatile for larger tubas. In some circumstances it would make sense to use a shallower mouthpiece with the F tubas; Laskey recommends the 28K for the EBF862, and Willis Music used a 28F for its demo recording. Still, any of a half dozen mouthpieces both larger and smaller work acceptably in my E♭ tubas.

Maybe there was something wrong with the 4th valve circuit on the EBF862? I suspected that of the EBC836, but it turned out to not be an issue. I did spend some time looking at the EBF862's fit and finish, and visually it seemed quite good. All of the tubas I tried seemed well made, though the slides on the EBC836 were rather too loose in my opinion. As for the Sierman Skylark, my dislike may be due it being a copy of a quirky old design, as evidenced by a lead pipe with a loop.

I just had a flashback to a day that I was playing tenor horn and was having a rough go at making the instrument speak well. After several minutes of playing, the first valve finally rotated far enough to allow air leakage. I'd forgotten to click the valve guides into the slots after oiling the (top-sprung) valves. The 4th valve of the EBF862 behaved something like that, though it seems strange that the valve could have poor alignment only in the down position.