Cerveny vs. Lidl

[bloke]

Can't resist. CC players with the older Miraphone setup of a 2+3 5th valve, can play an easy low F with 3-5. No stuffy.

No argument, but they weigh more.

[russiantuba]

I ain't judgin' without playin'.
Someday, I will be in Columbus, Ohio in the daytime on a weekday.

I view an FF SEMItone (HALF STEP) 5th valve circuit length as ideal for a BB-flat instrument, and chose it for one of my personal builds (with all of my C playing friends warning me off of it)... and there's plenty of room for an alternative FF whole tone piggyback slide, were is that I determined that it was a better idea.

C tuba players - in the last two or three decades - expect to be able to access a 5-4 low F, and it seems to me (for the Czech instruments) that would be a pretty easy alteration or even something to easily specify from the factory.

Otherwise - with that "long semitone" length of 5th circuit, 5-2-4 comes within only about 4 inches of tubing (2-inch pull of something) of playing a low F in tune, and and easily accessible second slide trigger would certainly do the trick. :thumbslide:

Further, that "long semitone" (C tuba) fifth circuit length sure offers a sweet C-sharp and low F-sharp, both of which are otherwise problematic with most C instruments. To dial in those two pitches even further, C sharp can be played with 5-1-3 whereas low F sharp can be played with 5-4. (this: With Auto-Tune so commonly employed in pop music, modern laymen's ears expect everything to be absolutely on the nose.)

My Miraphone 98 (BB-flat) serendipitously plays 2-4 B natural only barely sharp (based on my default setting for the length I of the fourth circuit for low F) and serendipitously plays low E absolutely in tune (with the 5-2-4 thing). The first day that I had it, I was all ready to alter the 5th circuit from an FF whole tone to an FF semitone, but - having discovered what I revealed in the previous sentence - I found it no reason to go to the trouble.

Arguing in Dr. Green's favor, we do encounter many low F naturals in tuba music, yet - in symphonic music - just about as many low F sharps.

I believe American symphonic players shy away from BB-flat tubas (which are used in the countries of this music's origin) because the 2-3 low F# it's probably going to be quite sharp without some sort of adjustment, and the F# up in the staff is going to be dicey (so very much cylindrical tubing involved) - without a precise lip vibration and air speed, although they may not realize that these are the reasons that they shy away from them. Probably (these things not occurring to them), most American symphonic players shy away from BB-flat instruments because "my teacher played a C instrument".

Most of us (whether or not we have ever seriously played BB-flat instruments past grade school) have discovered the additional resonance (with no additional work) of BB-flat instruments - compared to C instruments - which share the same bells, bottom bows, and mouth pipe tubes.

Let me rephrase--I can definitely see the use of a flat half step 5th on a BBb tuba. The low B is extremely rare, and the flat whole step can make things more in tune (seems like on CC tuba, if anything, it is sharp and over the center of pitch) and BBb tubas don't need to move their slides nearly as much. There was a student in one of my tuba studios for a brief time before they went to another school with a 5 valve chinese BBb, and my professor commented how rare a 5 valve one was. The program he transferred to, when the professor asked about him to me (as a TA who did some teaching), he stated the same thing. For CC, it is very hard for me to justify this. One caveat is that when the student paid to get it lengthened, Rob is a master at doing it and had no issue. Cerveny claims they don't sell the flat whole step fifth valve tubing, so he ordered it directly from them, and they sent the wrong diameter (which took months of ordering), and then had to repeat the step to do the right. The tuba is a good tuba.

[prodigal]

2-3-5 works on mine.

[bloke]

@russiantuba

Thumbs up to your response...

I'm just pointing out that - were someone to come up with some clever #2 slide trigger (particularly that didn't require removing the left hand from the #1 slide - for all of its purposes on a B-flat or a C instrument), with a long semitone 5th valve circuit, an in tune low F can be achieved with 5-2-4 with the second slide triggered out. ...and (were some really convenient way to trigger the #2 slide devised) a C tuba player could have their cake and eat it too, as far as intonation is concerned.

As a B-flat player these days, low E-flats occur seldom enough that I don't mind reaching over and popping up the 4th slide (on my long semitone 5th valve B-flat instrument that I built). It's got a stop rod on it, so I can do it with some degree of careless quickness, when needed.