What instruments are meant to be depicted in this engraving of a Beethoven symphony? Predates Wieprecht by 10 years and it seems unlikely anyone shoehorned tubas into Beethoven 9 back then...
Engraving is at 0:53 in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul1sdAR8ICw&t=53
edit: and again at 3:31, in front of the double basses
Tuba in Beethoven?
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russiantuba
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Re: Tuba in Beethoven?
How many artists would know that tuba was used, assuming these were made a quarter of a century later? Berlioz did not add the ophicleide to his orchestras, as it was already being used (1817 patent) and the serpent before that. The serpent parts are more often played on contrabassoon now, and other predecessors such as the English Bass Horn and Russian Bassoon were used during this time in various works.
Beethoven never heard these instruments to our knowledge, so he never scored for them after he went deaf. So, you get artists attend full symphonic performances (or opera) much later. During this age, the symphony was a gathering for many of the elite, those with money and power, and though a step above serfdom (artisans and craftsmen in some European societies were literally one step removed from the serfs), seeing an event with a full orchestra playing Beethoven years later and seeing a tuba on stage may have inspired it.
Beethoven was a very progressive composer, really breaking the mold of the composers before him. I do suspect if he had heard the ophicleide (or lived long enough for the tuba), he probably would have included it, as he made the trombones and contrabassoon staple instruments--though this is purely speculation. However, Beethoven's compositions did effect Brahms and why his works don't use tuba, and the criticism he received for the use in his 2nd Symphony.
Beethoven never heard these instruments to our knowledge, so he never scored for them after he went deaf. So, you get artists attend full symphonic performances (or opera) much later. During this age, the symphony was a gathering for many of the elite, those with money and power, and though a step above serfdom (artisans and craftsmen in some European societies were literally one step removed from the serfs), seeing an event with a full orchestra playing Beethoven years later and seeing a tuba on stage may have inspired it.
Beethoven was a very progressive composer, really breaking the mold of the composers before him. I do suspect if he had heard the ophicleide (or lived long enough for the tuba), he probably would have included it, as he made the trombones and contrabassoon staple instruments--though this is purely speculation. However, Beethoven's compositions did effect Brahms and why his works don't use tuba, and the criticism he received for the use in his 2nd Symphony.
Dr. James M. Green
Lecturer in Music--Ohio Northern University
Adjunct Professor of Music--Ohio Christian University
Gronitz PF 125
Miraphone 1291CC
Miraphone Performing Artist
www.russiantuba.com
Lecturer in Music--Ohio Northern University
Adjunct Professor of Music--Ohio Christian University
Gronitz PF 125
Miraphone 1291CC
Miraphone Performing Artist
www.russiantuba.com
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Colby Fahrenbacher
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Re: Tuba in Beethoven?
There are some images used later in the video that more clearly depict an ophicleide (2:58, for example). My guess would be that any instruments depicted with an upright bell in this video were meant to be ophicleide.
The video doesn't provide much (any?) information about the sources of the images provided, so it's hard to say if they are meant to portray literal performances of Beethoven 9 or if they are meant to generally resemble orchestra concerts at the time. My guess is the later. There are also no dates associated with each image, so we can't know for sure if these were created close to the premiere of Beethoven 9 or much later. If they were based off of concerts that occurred much later, then that might also explain how a tuba-shaped-object found it's way onto the stage.
The video doesn't provide much (any?) information about the sources of the images provided, so it's hard to say if they are meant to portray literal performances of Beethoven 9 or if they are meant to generally resemble orchestra concerts at the time. My guess is the later. There are also no dates associated with each image, so we can't know for sure if these were created close to the premiere of Beethoven 9 or much later. If they were based off of concerts that occurred much later, then that might also explain how a tuba-shaped-object found it's way onto the stage.
Former Tubist, USAF Bands