Educate a slide guy on valves

[Bassboner]

Yeah, Bollinger is of course brilliant and an amazing example of what bass bone can do. I don't subscribe to his tuning method because I'm not brilliant. I worry about bringing as many notes as close in (to 1st pos) as possible. He wants to get them lined up on 3rd pos. Maybe if I had more experience his method would seem more obvious to me. To me there's no "flat anything" tuning because that note is unusable in 1st pos. You're just tuning the next note in 2nd position, and abandoning 1st.. That pushes everything further out on the slide. Low double trigger Bb is very likely pushed off the slide. That's not a big deal, because I'd play that in pedal 1 instead of double trigger 7+ 98 times out of 100.

This isn't really what I meant by "educate me on valves", though. I want to learn how to use my 3v non-comp tuba and 4v comp euphonium piston instruments better.

[Mary Ann]

That descriptor of "drilling" the air through a bone -- I have not played one much, but that describes how it felt to me. I don't "drill" air through a (French) horn but I support the hell out of it, in a very different way than tuba.

I'm not one of the experts here, but I would say if you are accustomed to being able to always get in the center of the slot via the slide, valved instruments are going to feel very uncooperative. That's why tuba players (most of them) are slide pullers, to get as close as they can to the center of the slot. Others of us with pretty decently tuned instruments get reasonably good at forcing the pitch a bit away from the center, and just "make it go."

[bloke]

trombonists:
all about getting rid of any/all resistance

valve instrument players:
all about finding the right balance in resistance

valve instrument players from 45 - 40 years ago:
followed down the trombone players' "no resistance" rabbit hole;
it didn't work out very well.

[Bassboner]

Well, after actually practicing some euph playing, a couple further observations:

- It's a huge sound production concept difference between bone and euph, and I can't say I fully get it yet.
- It's really hard to play euph soft - so much like a bellering cow. You can back off, but you can never really get soft. You have to apply a certain amount of air pressure just to get it to speak.
- I rarely play 1&2 or 1&3 valve combos unless I already have one of those valves down, or maybe unless I think the combo will give me a sharper note than a single valve, like 1&2 instead of 3 for B natural on top of the staff. On a compensating horn, that should never be the case.
- Changing partials is so much easier on trombone, as is control of volume.
- Playing without the tongue (just using valves to articulate between notes) is much more efficient and fluid than tonguing everything, even very light tonguing. You guys know that instinctively and I'm just tripping across it.
- being fluid with the valves in keys with a lot of 2&3 combinations is going to take a lot of scale practice.
- On euph, you think of notes completely differently. For example, high G above the staff is 85% sharp 2nd on bone, and 15% 4th position. On euph, it's just 1&2 or 3, you'd never think of playing high G with 2nd valve on euph.
- On euph, alternate fingerings seem to carry less stigma, and they are used for tuning mainly. On bone, alternate positions are used mainly for speed/better slide management and getting slurs across natural breaks.
- My most influential teacher was John Swallow, and he was a baritone player before changing to trombone. He taught me a bunch of these natural breaks on the slide, which I'm convinced came from seeing the advantages of playing valves without constant articulation.

[gocsick]

- I rarely play 1&2 or 1&3 valve combos unless I already have one of those valves down, or maybe unless I think the combo will give me a sharper note than a single valve, like 1&2 instead of 3 for B natural on top of the staff. On a compensating horn, that should never be the case.

Assuming a 4 valve compensating (since you said you rarely play 1+3)... the compensating circuit is only in use when you have 4th valve depressed. Otherwise it is acting just like a non-compensating instrument. 3rd valve by itself is usually about 10-15 cents flatter than 1+2.

[Bob Kolada]

....
- It's really hard to play euph soft - so much like a bellering cow. You can back off, but you can never really get soft. You have to apply a certain amount of air pressure just to get it to speak.
....

There's a funny 4 part comic strip that alludes to your comment here.

The tuba player as he sees himself- tuxedo, fine mustachio, very regal, very handsome classic instrument
The tuba player as others see him- redneck in a flannel shirt, a ridiculously coiled monstrosity of an instrument*
The euphonium player as he sees himself- dumpy little guy, boring instrument
The euphonium player as others see him- dumpy little guy, boring instrument




* 'looks at pictures of myself playing'

[Rick Denney]

....
- It's really hard to play euph soft - so much like a bellering cow. You can back off, but you can never really get soft. You have to apply a certain amount of air pressure just to get it to speak.
....

There's a funny 4 part comic strip that alludes to your comment here.

The tuba player as he sees himself- tuxedo, fine mustachio, very regal, very handsome classic instrument
The tuba player as others see him- redneck in a flannel shirt, a ridiculously coiled monstrosity of an instrument*
The euphonium player as he sees himself- dumpy little guy, boring instrument
The euphonium player as others see him- dumpy little guy, boring instrument




* 'looks at pictures of myself playing'

Actually, that’s from “Les” Brass, a 1984 booklet by Alan Raph and Ben Milam. It’s worth chasing down.

IMG_2044.jpeg (27.05 KiB) Viewed 1399 times

Rick “whose copy is around here somewhere” Denney

[bloke]

- I rarely play 1&2 or 1&3 valve combos unless I already have one of those valves down, or maybe unless I think the combo will give me a sharper note than a single valve, like 1&2 instead of 3 for B natural on top of the staff. On a compensating horn, that should never be the case.

Assuming a 4 valve compensating (since you said you rarely play 1+3)... the compensating circuit is only in use when you have 4th valve depressed. Otherwise it is acting just like a non-compensating instrument. 3rd valve by itself is usually about 10-15 cents flatter than 1+2.

... whereby the third valve on a non-compensating instrument is actually compensating.