Large bass trumpets (think Mnozil Brass)

[Bob Kolada]

Last night I went on a mildly deep dive into bass trumpets being used in popular music, so to speak, not orchestral music. It seems relatively popular in some polka bands in Europe to use a large bass trumpet, they also seem to occasionally be called bass flugelhorns. One of the trombonists in Mnozil Brass regularly uses such an instrument. Anyone play one of these? I used to own a 'regular' rotary bass trumpet, an early Chinese clone, and an Olds marching trombone. The Olds played better but had that 'marching student horn' feel to it (since that's what they are), the bass trumpet was interesting to play but incredibly uncomfortable to hold. These seem bigger but not quite as big as our marching baritones.

Here's a 4 TARV model I found, though the link to the actual horn this guy is playing doesn't work. Interesting that he uses it partially in a bass role, similar to those bell front baritones these guys also play. Some of them seem to use the Harvey Phillips valve tuning (flat 4th valve, run the 3rd valve slide), I haven't seen any low range slide corrections in the bass trumpet videos yet. I also went on a 4 valve flugelhorn kick a while ago, interesting to see the conical versus cylindrical differences. iirc flugelhorns have a pedal tone series similar to larger conical brass instruments, starting on pedal Bb.


https://www.worischek.de/index.php/2012 ... strompeten



Much like Fredo's videos there is no option to choose translated subtitles in English.

Yes this is a nerdy little niche , but the worldwide proliferation of valved (primarily) 9' Bb bass instruments has always interested me. Oval baritons and euphoniums in Europe, British baritones and euphoniums, French C tubas, the multitude of 9' Bb instruments in old American band music,...

[bort2.0]

I went down the Volksmusik rabbit hole about 10-15 years ago, there's a lot of interesting stuff there.

Besides the tightly wrapped brass, there's also the rotary valve trombone and the oval baritones and euphonium.

Things like the bass trumpet, I always assumed the popularity derived from ease of transport. Like you mentioned, sometimes they play the bass parts, and they are much easier to transport than even the smallest of tubas. And, historically speaking, if you're in the mountains going town to town, it's going to be easier with smaller stuff to carry. The trade-off, besides the sound, is something that's extremely front heavy and uncomfortable to hold out in front of you. Sort of like those brutal drum corps marching euphonium.

I don't mind the sound of these, but for this kind of music, I think this is what the F tuba I was born to do

[bloke]

When I've seen those to which you specifically refer, my immediate thought is "oh, an extra expensive and fancied up marching baritone".

and that's just fine.

[gocsick]

I would like to have an Eb flugelhorn or Kuhlohorn fall into my possession. Not enough to actually pay real money for one.. but rather a $100 thrift store or mislabeled auction find. Even one of the DEG/Dynasty Eb alto cornet would be cool too.

I also would like a Getzen bass trumpet... those actually sound pretty good... compared to most bass tribute I've heard.

I generally think my Olds flugabone makes a better bass trumpet than most bass trumpets out there. At least it plays in tune (mostly).

[hup_d_dup]

See re-post below

[hup_d_dup]

It doesn't seem possible to format this is any easily readable manner. I can send a table for anyone who is interested.

Bass trumpets are common in Europe. The Euro instruments are very difficult to find in the US. By and large, the bores of the Euro horns are larger, perhaps avoiding the "stuffiness" complaint often heard regarding US and Chinese bass trumpets.

MANUFACTURER MODEL VALVES BORE(M) BORE(E) PRICE
Alexander Model 19 4 rotary 12.5 5200 Euro
Alexander Model 6 (Bb) 3 rotary 11.5 2800 Euro
Bach B188 3 piston 0.485
Bach 440 3 piston 0.485 not in production
Cervany CTR 590 3 rotary 11.7 0.46 3500
Cervany CTR 592-3 3 rotary 13.2 3500
Cervany CTR 592-4 4 rotary 13.2
Cervany CTR 792-3 3 rotary 13.2 3500
Getzen 394 3 piston 12.7 0.5 not in production
Getzen Eterna 994 3 piston 0.486 not in production
Helmut Voigt HV-BT2 "cosima" 4 rotary
Jurgen Voigt C/Bb J-592 4 rotary 12 5900
Krinner Tolzeer-Schneck 3 rotary 12.5 5000
Kuhl & Hoyer C/Bb bass tpt 4 rotary 12 7500
Kuhl & Hoyer Bb bass tpt 3 rotary 13 5800
Laetzsch BTR-1000 (C) 4 rotary 12 9500 Euro
Mack 3 piston 11.66 0.459 750
Meinl Weston 129 3 rotary 14 0.551
Melton 129-L 3 rotary 14 5000
Miraphone 374 120 4 rotary 12.2 7700 Euro
R. Worischek B (Bb) 3 rotary 4800 Euro
R. Worischek B (Bb) 4 rotary 5200 Euro
Shagerl Wunderhorn 3 rotary 14 0.551 6100 push rods
Thein New York (Bb/C) 4 rotary 13 0.512
Thomann BTR-115 3 rotary 11.65 1500
Wessex BT1 3 piston 0.46 800
Wessex BT2 3 rotary 11.66 0.46 850
Yamaha YTR-938 FFMS 3 rotary 11.24 0.442 5000

[bort2.0]

^ Nice list!!

I think one of the reasons for more bass trumpet options -- even though it's a more obscure instrument -- is that there are just a lot more brass companies out there that don't make low brass, but would be willing to make a big trumpet thing. Making a full-on tuba though, that's a whole different world of commitment. :)

[bloke]

I've played a few of those and I still would use a King flugabone over any that I've played so far.

Intonation / sound

The best ever heard some Wagner opera bass trumpet playing was with a flugabone.

I have a particular Bronx New York mouthpiece made on a trombone blank (actually, I have two of the same model mouthpiece) that might best be described as sort of an E flat alto horn mouthpiece superimposed within a trombone mouthpiece blank, whereby the rim is very-very wide. Truth be told, I can handle this mouthpiece better than I seem to be able to handle any E-flat alto horn mouthpiece, even though the cup and the cup shape and depths are basically the same. There's something about the rim extending out to the trombone width that seems to assist me.

I'd consider it a true bass trumpet mouthpiece.
12C is way too large to use as a bass trumpet mouthpiece, and still sounds like some sort of baritone (on most any bass trumpet whether so designated or flugabone), regardless of the instrument.