Air moving through the horn

[bloke]

I've had that happen.

[tofu]

.

[bloke]

shoes, ships, ceiling wax, cabbages, kings, as well as something about when pigs fly, as I recall...you know: "The Science"

Personally, I'm enjoying viewing the reels on social media whereby all of the fighting is occurring during commencements.
finally: appropriate behavior commensurate with the ceremony

[iiipopes]

I have already explained this. If the room is too small, there is no actual propagation of the true fundamental. There are interactions of the overtones which the ear may perceive as a fundamental, but it is a perception, not an actual propagation of the fundamental.

Pipe organ builders have been doing this for centuries: if the building is too small for a full-length pedal pipe, they use a "quint" pipe to give the illusion of the lower pitch.

Thanks for clarifying. I hope you understand that no one here is disputing this statement. Any disagreement has been under the assumption that you were suggesting the first option, which is implied in the comment of yours I quoted previously. If that’s not what you meant and people have misinterpreted you, then it seems like an honest mistake to me and not worthy of the mud-slinging that came from it.

Please do not overthink me. I do not presume to care about what others think of my posts, let alone popularity or political correctness, because I do not post in riddles, satire, sarcasm (unless identified as such) or other hidden agendas. I post facts as I understand them, relate learning as I have received it, and if I am mistaken, or if subsequent research shows something different, you can search the forums where I have posted many times that I stood corrected. But on this matter, having studied it since I was in undergrad, I am confident.

Again, all players of instruments that the primary function is the lower range of the sound spectrum, to study acoustical physics so they understand better how sound waves actually function, so that misconceptions may be dissipated and the player can provide a better foundation to the ensemble in which the player is a member.

[arpthark]

I do not post in riddles, satire, sarcasm (unless identified as such) or other hidden agendas.

You're in rare company around here!

[Colby Fahrenbacher]

I have already explained this. If the room is too small, there is no actual propagation of the true fundamental. There are interactions of the overtones which the ear may perceive as a fundamental, but it is a perception, not an actual propagation of the fundamental.

Pipe organ builders have been doing this for centuries: if the building is too small for a full-length pedal pipe, they use a "quint" pipe to give the illusion of the lower pitch.

Thanks for clarifying. I hope you understand that no one here is disputing this statement. Any disagreement has been under the assumption that you were suggesting the first option, which is implied in the comment of yours I quoted previously. If that’s not what you meant and people have misinterpreted you, then it seems like an honest mistake to me and not worthy of the mud-slinging that came from it.

Please do not overthink me. I do not presume to care about what others think of my posts, let alone popularity or political correctness, because I do not post in riddles, satire, sarcasm (unless identified as such) or other hidden agendas. I post facts as I understand them, relate learning as I have received it, and if I am mistaken, or if subsequent research shows something different, you can search the forums where I have posted many times that I stood corrected. But on this matter, having studied it since I was in undergrad, I am confident.

Again, all players of instruments that the primary function is the lower range of the sound spectrum, to study acoustical physics so they understand better how sound waves actually function, so that misconceptions may be dissipated and the player can provide a better foundation to the ensemble in which the player is a member.

Popularity, political correctness, satire, riddles, or sarcasm have nothing to do with this conversation, so I don’t know why you’re wasting your time bringing them up.

You poorly communicated your message, it was misunderstood by readers, and then you called them out for being uneducated. A simple “that’s not what I meant in that early post” would have sufficed and cleared things up.

[russiantuba]

Lower frequencies need space to expand. This was a big issue when a studio had lower ceilings installed in the studio after asbestos removal. My professor complained and now my basement has even lower ceilings and I have felt some of this phenomena where it sounds brighter and I get resistance.

It is a similar resistance like being too close to a timpani. Same professor, Jim Akins, had it in his orchestral contract to be seated more than 9 feet away from the timpani.

In Adler’s book on orchestration, he mentions an effect of hornists playing in the upper register about how they lose embouchure control (it’s been a while since I’ve read it) and thus you should separate and make the 1st and 3rd horn parts as higher horn parts.

[Nemo]

.
For example, at sea level, at approximately 70* farenheit, sound waves propagate (travel is not a good word, since a sound wave is actually a series of compressions and rarefactions) at about 1,115 feet per second. The pitch of open BBb (not pedal) is @ 29 Hertz. So 1,115/29 is about 38 feet. Therefore to properly propagate the fundamental, a closed room needs to be a little more than half this distance long to avoid a standing wave or a cancellation, or a little more than about 19 feet long. Any shorter than this and all you have are the overtones, and the discussion on the psychoacoustical effect of this has been set forth above. And since an octave down is half the pitch, the room length necessary is double length. So to get any real propagation of the pitch of pedal Bb, about 19 hertz, is then the room must be a little over 38 feet long to get propagation of the true fundamental. Again, the rest is overtones and psychoacoustical perception.

I think you're forgetting the obvious - the room might be smaller than the wave, but the instrument is still there providing a resonant column of air. Sure, once it makes it out of the instrument it's not going to form a nice standing wave with the room, but it is still THERE unless the phase and size exactly line up for cancellation. Does it sound great? No, but we all know that low notes don't sound good in small rooms. To claim that the air is not actually vibrating at those low frequencies just because the room is not correct. I'd dare you to point to an acoustics lab with an anechoic chamber smaller than 38 feet to a side and tell them all their data is a psychoacoustic phenomenon.

And before you get on your high horse and ask me to read a book, I have taken several courses on acoustics and physics through such an acoustics lab.

[iiipopes]

You poorly communicated your message, it was misunderstood by readers, and then you called them out for being uneducated. A simple “that’s not what I meant in that early post” would have sufficed and cleared things up.

Fair enough for a technical discussion. Yes, it is difficult to express technical information.

[iiipopes]

.
For example, at sea level, at approximately 70* farenheit, sound waves propagate (travel is not a good word, since a sound wave is actually a series of compressions and rarefactions) at about 1,115 feet per second. The pitch of open BBb (not pedal) is @ 29 Hertz. So 1,115/29 is about 38 feet. Therefore to properly propagate the fundamental, a closed room needs to be a little more than half this distance long to avoid a standing wave or a cancellation, or a little more than about 19 feet long. Any shorter than this and all you have are the overtones, and the discussion on the psychoacoustical effect of this has been set forth above. And since an octave down is half the pitch, the room length necessary is double length. So to get any real propagation of the pitch of pedal Bb, about 19 hertz, is then the room must be a little over 38 feet long to get propagation of the true fundamental. Again, the rest is overtones and psychoacoustical perception.

I think you're forgetting the obvious - the room might be smaller than the wave, but the instrument is still there providing a resonant column of air. Sure, once it makes it out of the instrument it's not going to form a nice standing wave with the room, but it is still THERE unless the phase and size exactly line up for cancellation. Does it sound great? No, but we all know that low notes don't sound good in small rooms. To claim that the air is not actually vibrating at those low frequencies just because the room is not correct. I'd dare you to point to an acoustics lab with an anechoic chamber smaller than 38 feet to a side and tell them all their data is a psychoacoustic phenomenon.

And before you get on your high horse and ask me to read a book, I have taken several courses on acoustics and physics through such an acoustics lab.

Good. You know the difference. And I did state what happens in a too small room, however inartfully, as pointed out in another post.