Skin issues on my upper lip

[BopEuph]

Last week, in anticipation of doing a socially-distanced orchestral excerpt read down, I bumped my daily 3-hour practice regime into a 5-6 hour deal (and didn't take the weekend off like I usually do), to make sure I wasn't the straggler. As most of you know, I'm an ex euph player, played mostly jazz and commercial music on tuba, since I was able to let my bass knowledge carry me while I figured out the lower range of the horn. This week, I've been back to the 3-hour routine.

In the last few weeks, my low end exploded, and now I'm finding I can play everything I used to be able to do on euph an octave down. I'm so stoked about it, I'm going through things I wouldn't have even considered playing a few months ago, and I just don't want to stop.

Since I won't be getting a bass tuba any time soon, I've been trying to push the high chops. They actually sound great up to about a high F on the 12J; I just need a bit more consistency of the pitch.

In the last week, the little spot of skin just under my nose has been worn off, like I've been blowing my nose too much (which I haven't). I'm suspecting it's the ramping up in practice. It's right where the top of the mouthpiece sits on my face.

Ever heard of this? Ever happened to you?

I might be forcing myself to take a week off. The skin blip happened a week ago, and I haven't given it a chance to heal, which should happen in 3 days or so if I give it a chance to.

By the way, the reading session went well, with the guys already talking about plugging me into the classical scene.

[Doc]

Hmm... without being there, it's brainstorming/guesswork.

Is it merely external: Are you shaving with a dull razor? Playing with stubble? Any problems with the surface of the mouthpiece rim (rough, damage, etc.)? Is the rim too wide for your face? Mouthpiece too close to the nose/need less top lip in the mp?

Or is it from using too much pressure against the mouthpiece? Ideally, you want to use only enough pressure to keep the seal. Plenty of no-pressure practice can create an airy sound (or even some leaks), but even on tuba and that toilet bowl-sized mouthpiece it's important to build the muscles so you can ultimately rely on the embouchure instead of relying on pressure to help force pitches into existence.

Or it might not be any of those.

[BopEuph]

Come to think of it, I did have some injury there a few weeks back (maybe it was cut shaving? Don't remember).

I have been using a lot of pressure on the high end, and my nose does sorta rest on the piece, but it's not an overly large on (PT-48). The sucky thing is I just bought a handful of new mouthpieces to see what else is out there. Just got the Warburton Tuba Grail. Already a marked improvement. The RT-88+ comes in today and I have to buy a Sellmansberger bowl before I can venture into modular tuba mouthpieces.

Honestly, I think it's just overuse, but I've never had skin injuries from playing. This is a new one...but I am definitely pushing harder than I probably should. My teacher self knows it, but I've been improving so fast lately that I want to keep going.

I thought I'd take a break after tomorrow, but it's started to scab over, which is probably my body's way to tell me it's not okay to play through the pain.

[Mary Ann]

well if it's not a friction injury, you might have found out you're allergic to the metal in your mouthpiece. I only found out I was allergic to silver because of a little spot on one lip that was always sore. Gold, no problem, Kelly, no problem, silver, there it is again. Quick fix is clear nail polish on the rim.

[BopEuph]

Get some USP quality lanolin on it as well.

[BopEuph]

well if it's not a friction injury, you might have found out you're allergic to the metal in your mouthpiece.

This thought had crossed my mind. Perhaps it's so mild an allergy that it took 40 hours worth of playing over a week to get that. Or maybe the pressure I had while working high added its own kind of friction. Guess it'll take time to find out.

The sucky thing either way is three new mouthpieces to try out, and no chops to do so.

[Doc]

well if it's not a friction injury, you might have found out you're allergic to the metal in your mouthpiece.

This thought had crossed my mind. Perhaps it's so mild an allergy that it took 40 hours worth of playing over a week to get that. Or maybe the pressure I had while working high added its own kind of friction. Guess it'll take time to find out.


The sucky thing either way is three new mouthpieces to try out, and no chops to do so.

Sellmansberger products (stainless steel) shouldn’t be a problem.

[jtm]

Sellmansberger products (stainless steel) shouldn’t be a problem.

They're very nicely made, too.

[Doc]

Sellmansberger products (stainless steel) shouldn’t be a problem.

They're very nicely made, too.

Indeed, sir!

[BopEuph]

I actually bought a few things very recently:

RT88+: Bob Tucci thinks it would be the best pairing with the Kanstul.

Warburton TG: It was a good price, and I like Warburton.

Sellmansberger rim and shank. Good price, need to hold off for a week on buying a bowl. I can't wait to try one out, though!

[bort2.0]

Did you receive the 88+ yet? Hope so....! I thought the sound on my Alex was incredible! But an enormous mouthpiece, which I would never grow into.

If the physical size works for you, it may be an excellent option for you.

As far as lip pain goes... My advicw is to shave often and STOP when it hurts. If your MOUTH hurts anywhere, at all, just STOP and wait. Pain is a warning, and FFS, take it seriously.

PS -; post some photos of the Kanstul tuba. That's a rare beast these days!

[BopEuph]

Did you receive the 88+ yet? Hope so....! I thought the sound on my Alex was incredible! But an enormous mouthpiece, which I would never grow into.

If the physical size works for you, it may be an excellent option for you.

As far as lip pain goes... My advicw is to shave often and STOP when it hurts. If your MOUTH hurts anywhere, at all, just STOP and wait. Pain is a warning, and FFS, take it seriously.

PS -; post some photos of the Kanstul tuba. That's a rare beast these days!

Yes, just came in today. Thanks! Put the piece up to my face and just buzzing was stinging. I have a bad habit of ignoring pain, especially when seeing so much progress. But we all have nothing but time right now.

I sure will post some pics. I got it at a great price on Tubenet. Funny story--after I bought the horn and was packing up, I realized his wife was my elementary school guidance counselor!

[hup_d_dup]

Ever heard of this? Ever happened to you?

Yes. It happened to me early in my tuba career, when I had big bump in playing time. I haven't had this problem since, even though I still play a lot (1000 hours last year).

My theory is that skin toughens up in reaction to stress. If you have a sudden significant increase in playing time, rather than ramping up, your skin's ability to adjust can't keep up.

If your experience is like mine, the problem will go away, and if you continue to play regularly, it won't come back.

Hup

[BopEuph]

Thanks. I did forget to mention that I was just diagnosed this year with mild psoriasis, but that's really mostly on my knuckles and feet. This seems more like injury than a "condition," but at least I have a lot of skincare samples from the dermatologist that can help this exact situation heal quicker.

The pain is gone, there's a small scab there now, and I'm thinking, if it's anything like mild skin trauma, it should be healed up by Sunday/Monday.

Looking forward to really giving the new mouthpieces a whirl! The Warburton already sounded more solid than the PT-48, and looking forward to trying the 88+. Gonna be buying that bowl from Bloke reaaaaal soon, too.

[Dan Tuba]

I have struggled with allergies/skin sensitivity for a long time. It started while I was in highschool. I nearly quit playing. Thankfully, Doug Elliot helped me out and crafted an all Lexan cup for me, and the problem completely disappeared. I have tried various things since then, but for me, the only 100% guarantee of no problems is an all Lexan cup. Even a lexan, Delrin rim, with metal cup (doesn't matter what type), can cause flair ups after long playing days. I have literally tried everything, and from time to time, I live on the edge and play metal of some various type, and well... usually pay a small or large price

My Doug Elliot cup eventually cracked, but I have been able to get by thanks to Kelly and Faxx polycarbonate Mouthpieces. I will soon cross 20 years of service in the US Army Bands program. I am so glad that I didn't give up, and super thankful for innovators like Doug Elliot, Jim Kelly, etc. I am still really enjoying the opportunity to play music, whether in the community, church, or in the military after all these years.

As far as the performance of "plastic" as a mouthpiece material, there is a bit of a learning curve, and some people have negative experiences,come positive. However, that's a whole other can of worms, lol

I am glad to hear that you are healing quickly and will be making glorious tuba sounds again soon

[BopEuph]

Thanks, everyone. Scab fell off and fresh pink skin left behind. Not sure if it was what did the trick, but glad I had some Aquaphor!

Back to the woodshed on Monday!

[bloke]

short and blunt:

You are likely practicing too much without resting, and mashing too hard when playing higher pitches.
If your rim is on top of your nose cartilage, it may be too wide.

[BopEuph]

Yep, pretty sure on all of this. It was probably dumb, but I got super excited when I could actually do the juvenile thing and blast Ride. I spent the 40 hours that week trying to really perfect those excerpts for the read down (and finesse Ride).

The first like 5 years I played the tuba, everything below the Bb was awful. I got fed up and decided to do something about it a few years ago.

As for mashing, probably, and I spent a lot of my time last week reading trombone etudes and the Bach suites at pitch.

And with the rim, I was on the PT-48. Currently working on finding a better mouthpiece, which I've got an RT-88+, Warburton Tuba Grail, and your #2 33.2 rim. Spent yesterday on the 88. Felt good, low range was way stronger, and chipped tons of notes from a combination of new mouthpiece and not playing for 5 days. I think I'll work with it for a little while before trying the next piece.

[rudysan]

I did that kind of lip rash for a long time and found out years ago that it was allergies to metals, nickel in my case. Not saying it is your case but just sharing my experience.

Maybe it can have appeared to you recently because you are trying new mouthpieces and some of them might have nickel silver plating instead of pure silver, or because your lip started to react because you practice a lot more. Or maybe some of the mouthpieces you try are worn off and you react to the brass under the plating. Depending on the allergy degree, you can also be allergic to some kind of stainless steel since a bit of nickel can leak. What works for me, from what I tried : Houser/Sellmansberger with H-Kote titanium rims, Giddings made in 15-5 stainless (the Baer models are made in it, but if you ask, Ivan can make any of his mouthpieces in it, titanium might also work), gold plating (but it wears off fast in my case), pure silver plating (but it's hard to know which companies do that (I think I wasn't allergic to Miraphone's if I remember) and the plating ends up wearing off after some time and you end up on the brass, also allergene).

[BopEuph]

Actually, this happened before I got my first new mouthpiece. The PT-48 is old and has some scratches on the rim, so that could be it.

I live close enough to the Warburton factory that I'm debating on having Terry gold plate whichever mouthpiece I decide to go with.

Never had this issue on euph, but as I thought about it, my mouthpiece of choice was a gold plated SM-4. I liked it because of the feel and sound of the mouthpiece when compared to my BB-1, so it wasn't for allergy reasons. But if I had allergy issues, I'd never have known.