Sousaphones

[pjv]

Because you never know what a tuba player needs???

[bloke]

sousaphone: a tuba that can be easily played while standing up, and heard better - by others - outdoors

(Are they really much more than this?)

[pjv]

Haha. Miscommunication.
I was responding to a v - e - r - y lengthy spam that had links for just about everything. (I remember Adidas tennis shoes being in there somewhere)

[bloke]

It's probably time to post one of the Booker T. pictures, again...

[Kirley]

Besson?

[bloke]

Yup… I’d love to have one. In particular, I’d love to have one of those that’s three valve compensating.

[MG]

[quote I was wanting a helicon, and a friend pointed out that most people would be disappointed that I don't have a sousaphone.
[/quote]

I love my friends but don’t always listen to them. In this case you might consider doing the same. I switched from sousaphone to helicon and I getting nothing but rave reviews. I’ve not had one individual, not a one, make any disparaging comment about it. It’s just the opposite. Audience members (from “know nothing of the tuba” to those “in the know”) are intrigued by it. Tuba players in the audience love it and the other musicians love it. And this particular horn meets all your qualifications. It’s new, shiny, good looking, sounds great, etc. It has a 4th valve. I use it but in retrospect, for the music I play with this horn, I really don’t need it. I could have save a little money and had a less heavy horn (it’s heavy. Around 26 lbs).

Regarding your original post, I think you might be overthinking this. The horn doesn’t have to be pretty, shiny, new looking, etc. Get a sousaphone / helicon that works. Who cares what it looks like. If you can play it, you sound good and can provide the bass that the band is looking for on that gig then you’re golden. My 2 cents for what it’s worth.

[bloke]

In the 1920s, Buescher made some detachable recording bells for B-flat tubas that were only 16 1/2 inches in diameter (OK: others that were still only 19 inches), that fit the 6-inch Conn sousaphone bell collars.

I think it might be cool to stick one of those bells on a Conn 14K or 36K (or Selmer USA) sousaphone - to get a tuba-like “punch“ out of a sousaphone, but those bells are pretty rare.

[donn]

Something to think about on sousaphones and helicons: there perhaps ought to be three categories.

• sousaphone
• American style helicon
• European style helicon

The first two are more similar to each other, like the difference betwen lap tubas with forward or up bells.

The European style helicon has a fixed leadpipe - I mean, it rotates, but it doesn't have the American bits, so you just have to arrange for your mouth to be where the tuba needs it to be. (I guess since these designs solidified in an era when people were smaller, that typically means you need your neck shortened.) That makes it more like a lap tuba in terms of acoustical design, I guess, and if it works for the player it's probably ideal. For me, the neck length thing was not quite right (but the oval shape of some of the bass helicons makes for a much more stable ride, stays upright with no hands.)

[MG]

[quote I was wanting a helicon, and a friend pointed out that most people would be disappointed that I don't have a sousaphone.

I love my friends but don’t always listen to them. In this case you might consider doing the same. I switched from sousaphone to helicon and I getting nothing but rave reviews. I’ve not had one individual, not a one, make any disparaging comment about it. It’s just the opposite. Audience members (from “know nothing of the tuba” to those “in the know”) are intrigued by it. Tuba players in the audience love it and the other musicians love it. And this particular horn meets all your qualifications. It’s new, shiny, good looking, sounds great, etc. It has a 4th valve. I use it but in retrospect, for the music I play with this horn, I really don’t need it. I could have save a little money and had a less heavy horn (it’s heavy. Around 26 lbs).

Regarding your original post, I think you might be overthinking this. The horn doesn’t have to be pretty, shiny, new looking, etc. Get a sousaphone / helicon that works. Who cares what it looks like. If you can play it, you sound good and can provide the bass that the band is looking for on that gig then you’re golden. My 2 cents for what it’s worth.
[/quote]


Edit: I should rephrase that first sentence. I love my friends and I always listen to them. I don’t always agree or take their advice though.

[WC8KCY]

Yup… I’d love to have one. In particular, I’d love to have one of those that’s three valve compensating.

Am still kicking myself for not getting the non-comp BB-flat Besson sousaphone at Dan Schultz's when I had the chance. That sousa had a deep, resonant voice unlike anything I've heard before, or since.

Buescher sousaphones don't seem to get much love on this forum, and I think that's something of a shame--though it may simply be a case of Buescher not having built very many of them. During my stint with the Escanaba (MI) City Band, I played the City Band's massive Buescher sousaphone, and it was a very fine instrument. Built like a tank, with weight to match...

[bloke]

A leaky-valves huge (bigger than 6/4) Buescher came through my shop (in the old "brick-and-mortar" days), a long time ago.
It was sorta beat-up and the valves were leaky, so I sold it for "hundreds" to a guy who was in town to play a NOLA-style funeral for his buddy.

[iiipopes]

The Olds/Reynolds full-size sousaphones are very close to what would be attained by soldering a King valveset on to a Conn 14K body.

Not every Conn sousaphone is a 20K/22K, by the way.

I sometimes wish I'd stuck with my Reynolds sousaphone.

I can attest to that. I have played an Olds 'glass souzy, a Reynolds 'glass souzy, many Kings, both 'glass and brass, and what I'm playing for outdoor gigs right now (until Lee Stofer gets my 36K done) is probably, from the serial number, wrap, and style of hardware, a Pan Am with a Cavalier bell. I measured the bore, and it is the .689. It weighs 22 pounds and accepts a standard Conn gooseneck.

[iiipopes]

I got me a 36k several months ago. It was an emotional "want" purchase as much as anything else. (See avatar) The fact that it has a 24" bell instead of 26" is a ++ in my book too.

My local band is doing a gig next week outdoors and we had a rehearsal yesterday indoors. So I brought it.

I tested it out at home first and intonation is decent through the usual range of our rep.

MTS out almost 2 inches and others all the way in. (Normal for me)

I'm pleased with how tuba-like it sounded, of course I tried to coax that out of it by not overblowing. But it was good, no complaints. It will pop out low Gs and Fs all afternoon!!

It was "Economy Refurbed" at Taylor music. New Conn neck and bits, shipping and tax included for -2k. They were a pleasure to deal with. I was sent comprehensive up to date photos including the pistons. It arrived as described. It was shipped in two boxes UPS without incident. The shipping peanuts were bothersome but they taped off the openings to keep them out of the body. A pain, but it worked so...

I haven't found a lessor priced one in as good a condition since.

Ah-Ha! So you're the person who got it! By the time I saw it, as I emailed to ask about it, it changed in front of my eyes on screen from "for sale" to "sold." Congrats! To get those last few notes in tune, I always convert the upper loop of the first valve circuit to a moveable slide, then trim the bottom of the circuit so that "dead" for Eb and Ab is about 5/8 inch out, 2nd space C if it tends to go flat is a push, pull the third valve slide and set it to tune 2+3 dead to slightly flat, then I can pull the 1st valve slide for 1+3 & 1+2+3, since it sits right at your left hand comfortably. Your comment of "tuba-like," along with, of course, weighing only 18 pounds, is exactly why I am getting one: outdoor concerts with my community concert band. Thanks.

[Three Valves]

You should give them a call, they come up regularly and may be working on a few before putting them up on line.

[iiipopes]

You should give them a call, they come up regularly and may be working on a few before putting them up on line.

I did. They didn't have any valve blocks in good enough shape, and a couple of others over the last few months were, as you observed, were not in good enough condition for me, so I bought their restored bell and bugle and had them shipped to Lee Stofer who has a good valve block and will do the mods (as most of the techs on this forum can do) I mentioned above.

[ronr]

I have a Wessex fiberglass horn. Valves are ok, except I find the valve caps (with the logo on them) slippery. Haven’t played it enough to find all the idiosyncrasies. I do carry a hex wrench set with me as the bolts holding the brass to the fiberglass have a tendency to work themselves loose.

[Dave Detwiler]

sousaphone: a tuba that can be easily played while standing up, and heard better - by others - outdoors

(Are they really much more than this?)

Well, that's what's interesting about the history of the Sousaphone - John Philip Sousa came up with the idea for his (almost always) indoor and seated concert band, in order to achieve the bass sound that he was looking for. But the bells were upright in the original design, and for the entire history of that famous band - even after Conn introduced the forward facing bell in 1908.

Further, Sousa featured a 4-valve Conn Sousaphone as the centerpiece of his bass section from 1898, adding a second 4-valve horn in 1922 - although the rest of the section (as many as four more) featured 3-valve Conn Sousaphones. That certainly looked impressive, but it seems that Sousa preferred Sousaphones because of their sound. At one point, in 1922, he even made a case for the "Sousaphone as Possible Substitute for Upright Tuba," and Bill Bell was his star player!

1922-08-30 Christian Science Monitor.jpg (121.69 KiB) Viewed 1492 times

[Søren]

I used to do what you describe. An old Conn 14K Sousaphone (and a ProTec sousaphone gig bag) held up extremely well for me. The brass was (very) thick and did not dent easily. It would pop a few supporting soldering spots roughly every 50th gig, but those were very easy fixes. Valves are still tight after a fair amount of abuse. I combined it with a standard Shure microphone in the throat of the bell and a Gallien Krueger combo. YMMV