Stofer Air Corps?

[Sousaswag]

Hey all,

If you've kept up with my MRP thread, you may remember that I'm not totally convinced a Pt-50 is the best mouthpiece for me on that horn. It's the best that I have, but I'd like your thoughts on others that work well!

I'm particularly interested in the Stofer Geib or Air Corps. Does anybody have experience with these? I've sent Lee an email of course, to hear his thoughts as well.

I also realize no mouthpiece will work for everybody. However, I'd like some opinions. What do you like on your large rotary contrabass tuba?

Cheers!

[bloke]

related to your inquiry, without being self-promotional:
(which may or may not seem useful to you)

I use an extra-deep-cup mouthpiece on only ONE of my instruments (specifically, to shade that particular instrument's resonance in the low register at high output levels), but that mouthpiece's (ultimate) throat diameter is no larger than "average".

When playing anything larger than (the vague designation) "5/4" size, I only tend to use "regular deep" mouthpieces, and not "extra deep".

[Inkin]

I don't know how "large" you mean by large rotor tuba, but I play a BBb Marzan (B+M made) Slant Rotor that is not a small horn, and settled on a Stofer Geib many years ago. I still very much enjoy it. It adds a level of harshness to the low range that counteracts the natural tendencies of the horn and works well for me in terms of making the sound I want to come out of the bell. It probably isn't a you-can-pry-this-Stofer-Geib-out-of-my-cold-dead-hands situation, but this is the mouthpiece that stopped the search for the right mouthpiece for me and this horn.

[bort2.0]

Hey all,

If you've kept up with my MRP thread, you may remember that I'm not totally convinced a Pt-50 is the best mouthpiece for me on that horn. It's the best that I have, but I'd like your thoughts on others that work well!

I'm particularly interested in the Stofer Geib or Air Corps. Does anybody have experience with these? I've sent Lee an email of course, to hear his thoughts as well.

I also realize no mouthpiece will work for everybody. However, I'd like some opinions. What do you like on your large rotary contrabass tuba?

Cheers!

I'm pretty sure that @Big Francis uses the Air Corps, but he doesn't come around here too much anymore.

I haven't tried the Air Corps. But I've owned a number of other Geib mouthpieces, including one that I had custom made with a larger throat (same basic thing as the Air Corps).

Overall, I think they are all great mouthpieces, and do quite well on large rotary tubas such as yours. Lots of clarity, and a good sized mouthpiece to allow for pretty easy big playing.

For a while, I owned the original Conn Geib from which the Stofer Geib was copied. The Conn had an amazingly sweet sound to it like no other mouthpiece I've owned. Also had a very small throat, and was not a realistic mouthpiece option for playing above MF. Although the Stofer Geib is a copy, the two played very differently to me.

The Kanstul Geib is another great variant -- now made by James R New. I've owned a few of them, they are solid and play really well. He made a version of the mouthpiece for me that had a larger 8.4mm throat, and I really liked that one on some tubas I owned. But as a non-collector of mouthpieces, I sold that one. Probably should have kept it.

There are other Geib mouthpieces as well... Schilke Geib (which is the least Geib-ish of the Geib's), Laskey 28G and 30G (which I'd like to find one!) and whatever that asymmetric mouthpiece was, and on and on. There are many variants. At one point, I had planned to collect and analyze them all, and compare against the original Conn Geib. That was going to be my DMA dissertation topic... except I'm not in grad school for music.

On large rotary tubas, I tend to like large mouthpieces. Bowl shaped seems to work really well, but for me the depth is more important. I just can't handle a diameter more than about 33mm. The Tilz WH-B2 is a very large mouthpiece, which worked GREAT on my Willson 3050, except that the 33.5(?)mm diameter was too much for my face muscles to adjust to. Same with the RT-88 (33.5mm), it plays great for me, but is too wide. The Rudy Meinl RM10 is another big bowl shaped option (which I may also consider), and the Sellmansberger Symphony is sort of Geib-ish in the cup as well. The reverse taper is something that particularly interests me, though, as it may lend itself to increased focus and clarity.

You may want to send Bob Tucci an email, and describe what you want different from the RT-50. If that mouthpiece is close-but-not-quite, then he can help you dial that in.

[barry grrr-ero]

The idea of the Air Corp was/is to alleviate the sensation of 'back up' when trying to blow loud on the regular Stofer Geib. I tried one on my B&S Neptune and soon sold it off, as I liked my tone better on the regular Stofer Geib. However - against what everyone says you should do with rotors - I've been using mostly a nameless copy of an 'original' Helleberg (Euro shank). I have no idea who made this thing, but I really like it.

When I want fatter low notes, I'll switch to the Wessex Nickels (Nickles?) mouthpiece. To me, it falls somewhere between the Conn Helleberg 120 and the Helleberg "Chief". It has the similar flat, thin and slightly sharp rim profile to it. When I play in a 1920's/'30s society jazz orchestra, I use a Tucci PT-50 + (heavy weight), as I'm trying to get my sound as close as possible to a big BBb recording bass. All three of those are really good on the Neptune. I know the MRP is a tad smaller (but more efficiently designed) than the Neptune.

Strangely enough, I don't enjoy using a Helleberg on the Besson 983 Eb I've been using in a British style brass band. For the moment, I'm using the Dillon/Pat Sheridan Geib that came with the horn. It's a tad smaller than the Stofer Geib. This one has a really rounded rim that seems to work well with that bowl. If I continue playing in this brass band in the fall, I may try out a few smaller Eb tuba mouthpieces, such as the Dennis Wick 4L or 5L (Heritage style). They might not work on that horn, but I want to give them a trial.

I know this didn't answer your question, but good luck. Maybe the Stofer 'Air Corp' Geib would work well on the MRP. I believe Steve Campbell in the Minnesota Orchestra uses a Monette on his MRP.

[bort2.0]

I believe Steve Campbell in the Minnesota Orchestra uses a Monette on his MRP.

Confirming that Steve uses a Monette.

I believe it's a pre-Prana Monette 94 that he's used forever and ever.

[MartinMan]

I use one as my main mouthpiece with my Martin 6/4 and I'm quite happy with it

[matt g]

Not sure if helpful…

I used a Dillon G5B on my MW32 what seems like forever ago. I liked that mouthpiece. Unfortunately I sold it off (I think I had a couple?) years ago. The for sale post likely still exists. Anyhow, that was supposed to be a modified version of the Geib style mouthpiece.

For my big horn, I like a “normal” cup. Joe’s Symphony Cup does well on the 2165. I have the cup extender, but greatly prefer the mouthpiece without it.

Where I see the need for “deep” cups is when one is playing a medium sized tuba but wants some additional headroom when dynamics are pushed. Otherwise, it seems like too much work to liven up the sound with deep mouthpieces on big tubas.

[bloke]

My M-W 5450's low range is extremely accessible, but becomes a bit obnoxious at fff, and that's the instrument with which I ADD depth to my Symphony cup.

fwiw...The Symphony cup is a Geib shape (hybrid funnel/bowl combo), to which one can attach any of my rims, any of Dave Houser's rims, and any of these three back-bores/shanks:
- Symphony (hybrid reverse-taper throat - most popular)
- Orchestra Grand (smaller throat and smaller exit bore)
- X (similar to a standard/generic throat/back-bore).

Any of those three are available in standard or euro shank.

The three-piece modular mouthpieces (any cup/shank/rim) are completely fabricated of stainless steel.

I also sell an economy (priced closer to the prices of some of the popular production models) mouthpiece, which features a NOT stainless steel Symphony/Symphony cup/back-bore, and a shank size in-between standard and euro. It is only $165 (permanently bonded to the middle-middle-middle opening size of my most popular rim style #2 profile) OR that silver plated brass part can be purchased THREADED, so that ANY of my (stainless steel) rims can be screwed on to it.|
(I don't offer any silver-plated nor gold-plated threaded brass rims. They're just too easy to scratch, and the plating - if the mouthpiece is heavily used, and as is known - only lasts a few years at most. Stainless steel rims feel like newly-gold-plated rims, except "forever".)

The economy version of my "Symphony" mouthpiece (which is either one-piece with NO rim choice or two-piece with ANY rim choice)


...and standard-depth rims (with no fancy titanium coatings) are $80.

[barry grrr-ero]

I can testify that Bloke's equipment is really good, and that Joe will work with you to get a good combination going for any particular tuba, cimbasso, etc. I could easily be using my Blokepieces on a daily basis too. I've just been enjoying the Helleberg type rims lately.

[bloke]

I brought up the choice because
- Someone mentioned it.
- After reading "Geib" in this thread - a whole bunch of times - it features a similar cup-shape.

[Big Francis]

Hey all,

If you've kept up with my MRP thread, you may remember that I'm not totally convinced a Pt-50 is the best mouthpiece for me on that horn. It's the best that I have, but I'd like your thoughts on others that work well!

I'm particularly interested in the Stofer Geib or Air Corps. Does anybody have experience with these? I've sent Lee an email of course, to hear his thoughts as well.

I also realize no mouthpiece will work for everybody. However, I'd like some opinions. What do you like on your large rotary contrabass tuba?

Cheers!

I have the Stofer Geib and Air Corps for use with my MW2155. I used a Dillon PS-02 as my exclusive mouthpiece for a decade and change prior to that (deep funnel, large backbore). The Stofer Geib tone is what I'm really looking for, but the struggle is real adjusting to the low range after playing on a mpc with a large backbore (this feels similar to Barrty's experience). The Air Corps is a nice stop gap and gets me close to the sound I want and is my daily driver until I find/make the time to make the Geib work for me.

Hope this helps.
Frank

[cjk]

Not sure if helpful…

I used a Dillon G5B on my MW32 what seems like forever ago. I liked that mouthpiece. Unfortunately I sold it off (I think I had a couple?) years ago. The for sale post likely still exists. Anyhow, that was supposed to be a modified version of the Geib style mouthpiece.
...

to be further dubiously (?) helpful, all of this is "if I remember correctly" and off the top of my head. I am very interested in Geib style mouthpieces and have been for quite some time.

Brain dump follows:

The Dillon G5B had Geib shaped cup, a C-4 like "bubble" rim, a bronze core (the "B"), and a 7.5 mm throat. IIRC, it was Matt Walters' favorite of the Dillon "G"s.
Ones without the B had a brass core. The bronze core ones (B) were heavier without adding extra mass. The bronze ones were heavier but had the exact same shape as the brass ones.

All of the Dillon Geib mouthpieces had Geib shaped cups (duh) and the C-4 like "bubble" rim.
There was a G1, G2, G3, and G5. The others had much larger throats than the 5. They were evidently all slightly different at the very bottom of the cup. All of them other than the G5 had larger throats. I want to say it was in the 8.3 or 8.4 mm ballpark. Big throats were all the rage when these were current.

What would have been the G4 was Scott Mendoker's favorite and was called the M1C. Scott Mendoker was the design consultant for these.
They came in American shank and Large shank. The Large shank was bigger than what is typically called Euro. IIRC, the Large shank was .550" at the small end. G5BL would be a bronze core G5 with a Large shank. No "L" = American shank, so a Dillon G5 would be a brass core with an American shank.

All the best,
Christian

[hrender]

...

What would have been the G4 was Scott Mendoker's favorite and was called the M1C. Scott Mendoker was the design consultant for these.
They came in American shank and Large shank. The Large shank was bigger than what is typically called Euro. IIRC, the Large shank was .550" at the small end. G5BL would be a bronze core G5 with a Large shank. No "L" = American shank, so a Dillon G5 would be a brass core with an American shank.

All the best,
Christian

The M1Cs went through a real craze 15-20 years ago. I see them for sale very rarely now, although I don't know why. I assume the folks that have them like them and hold on to them.

[Pauvog1]

Hey all,

If you've kept up with my MRP thread, you may remember that I'm not totally convinced a Pt-50 is the best mouthpiece for me on that horn. It's the best that I have, but I'd like your thoughts on others that work well!

I'm particularly interested in the Stofer Geib or Air Corps. Does anybody have experience with these? I've sent Lee an email of course, to hear his thoughts as well.

I also realize no mouthpiece will work for everybody. However, I'd like some opinions. What do you like on your large rotary contrabass tuba?

Cheers!

I briefly owned / sold off a regular stofer geib. It's a fine mouthpiece. It reminded me of a more restrictive version of the Sellmansberger Symphony I typically play, but the SG was noticably too stuffy for me, especially in the low register. If you like that style rim I could maybe see the SG working on an MRP CC / PT6 type horn, where a little resistance can be helpful.

I imagine the air corpse version with a bigger throat or backbore version would work better than the original (for me) but I like my Symphony with profundo rim / slightly larger backbore a lot.

I also don't play a large rotary horn, but if I did, I'd probably be sticking with Joe's line of mouthpieces. I own one of each flavor!

For what it's worth, I think Joe's imperial cup with either a deeper rim or cup depth extender (that way you have some flexibility in depth) would be a good match to the MRP CC.

[cjk]

I am curious on how big the throat is on a Stofer Air Corps if anyone has one and can measure.

[tubanh84]

I realize a PT6 is not a MRP. However they're more than slightly similar.

The PT50 was not a great mouthpiece for me on my PT6. But the PT50+ was glorious on it. The 50 was too wild for me - it didn't focus the low register well, and the sound was hollow. Both of those things were remedied with the 50+.

Caveat: I've always been a "very good" player. Don't know if I've reached the level of "great." Probably with some more maturity and work I could have reigned myself in on the 50. But the 50+ did the work for me, so I took the lazy way out.