Narrowing down mouthpieces

[tubanh84]

Crowd-sourcing some information here, since I can't easily get somewhere with my horn to test mouthpieces. Still VERY happy with my 184. I'm using my Olka CB-1 on it and getting solid results. But the only mouthpieces I own at the moment are medium-to-large funnel mouthpieces. I would like to try some bowl shaped mouthpieces on it just to see how the horn responds.

There isn't anything wrong with the Olka at all. This is more of a "don't know what you don't know" thing, and I want to cover my bases.

So I'm looking for advice on medium-to-large bowl shaped mouthpieces to narrow the field so I can get 1-3 of them and try them out.

Thoughts?

[russiantuba]

I’d probably throw a Sellmansberger symphony and one of the Geibs on your list

[barry grrr-ero]

Without first knowing your horn, to answer your question while using the broadest possible brush stroke, I like the regular Stofer Geib (the bored out Stofer "Air Corp" Geib didn't agree with my Neptune). It seems to have a good balance of various elements. But since your tuba is smaller than mine, maybe the "Air Corp" would work well on yours. They're the same, except that the throat is opened up more on the "Air Corp". However, there are many different Geibs out there, just as there are many Helleberg variants.

I have a friend in S.F. who is quite happy with the Hammond Geib. Then there has been some very high praise for the Lube Master Super G Geib. Have fun! Don't be a fool like me and spend all your money.

Barry

[bort2.0]

What kind of sound are you looking to achieve?

I bet if you stuck a PT-88 I'm there you could make it sound larger than it really is. Or vice versa, with something smaller.

Geibs are good. Lots and lots of options on those, most are pretty similar. The Schilke Geib is more Helleberg like than all others. The Sellmansberger Symphony is Geiby as well.

[bloke]

I try to avoid mismatching mouthpieces which don’t support the character of sound that an instrument naturally emits.

With my F tuba, I always use a medium shallow bowl cup mouthpiece which in my line of mouthpieces is called “Solo”…
UNLESS there is some sort of rare occasion where I’m using my F tuba as more of a foundational instrument than normal, and wish to imitate the sound of one of those [trigger warning!] less resonant and more covered-sounding piston F tubas, in which case I will move up to a NOT-deep funnel cup mouthpiece in my line called “Imperial”, but moving to that slightly larger size - when using the F tuba – is a rarity for me.

[Dan Tuba]

For a low cost option, maybe try the Kelly 50, 18, and/or 24AW(this is an updated 24AW design with a modern rim profile, and inner diameter).

I like all of the lexan versions of these, and I just purchased a stainless steel 24AW for fancy occasions.

Fwiw, I used to use a 3/4 BBb for quintet playing. I had a lot of success with using a PT-64 w/delrin rim (Pre Kelly Mouthpieces).

[cjk]

I try to avoid mismatching mouthpieces which don’t support the character of sound that an instrument naturally emits.

....

I used a Schilke H2 on my 184 when I had it years ago. It sounded bigger-ish and rounder-ish.

I think that today, I would follow bloke's advice and use something like his Solo or Imperial on one. I recall (perhaps incorrectly?) that the genesis of his original "solo" mouthpiece (custom made for him by Schilke) was designed to make his 184 CC which he had at the time "more 184" rather than bigger or rounder.

I miss my 184 CC.

[bloke]

Mouthpiece nonstarters (second time I've used that word on this site, today ), for me, have always been terrible rim contours.

yeah...cup shapes (emphasized/dampened overtones) are extremely important, and throat shapes/sizes affect response, but (seriously) most rim contours s-u-c-k.
I offer a bunch of rim styles that I personally dislike, because I'm an accommodator, and not a preacher.
(I've tried "teaching" a few times. The times that I was successful was when "students" paid attention - with most having paid little attention, and assuming that "working with [against] a teacher" (and not necessarily following any of the teacher's recommendations) was enough to bring about success/achievement.

I can play on a GOOD rim CONTOUR when configured to a fairly wide range of embouchure openings (with a mm) depending on the instrument with which that mouthpiece is used. "Keeping exactly the same embouchure (aka 'cup') opening" - for all mouthpieces - is humbug.

Some people (considerably more talented than am I) can do amazing things with bad mouthpieces equipped with bad rims.

[jtm]

So, ... what makes a rim good? Or bad?

[the elephant]

I would like to try some bowl shaped mouthpieces on it just to see how the horn responds.

Seriously, try a Bach 18 which is known to be a good example. Better yet, try the Blessing 18, which is a better, cheaper alternative, as Bach has produced a lot of really sloppily-made examples of the 18 over the years. To call it inconsistent would be an understatement. Not so with the cheaper Blessing 18.

Good luck, OP.

[cjk]

So, ... what makes a rim good? Or bad?

Rims are like shoes. Mine probably won't fit you unless they do. :)

Some people swear by wide and round Miraphone C4 "bubble" rims.

Some people swear by sharp and flat Helleberg rims.

I'd guess that most folks are in the middle somewhere.

[iiipopes]

I would like to try some bowl shaped mouthpieces on it just to see how the horn responds.

Seriously, try a Bach 18 which is known to be a good example. Better yet, try the Blessing 18, which is a better, cheaper alternative, as Bach has produced a lot of really sloppily-made examples of the 18 over the years. To call it inconsistent would be an understatement. Not so with the cheaper Blessing 18.

Good luck, OP.

The Blessing is the best 18 Bach never made.

[the elephant]

The Blessing is the best 18 Bach never made.

It most certainly is.

[tubanh84]

What kind of sound are you looking to achieve?

I bet if you stuck a PT-88 I'm there you could make it sound larger than it really is. Or vice versa, with something smaller.

Geibs are good. Lots and lots of options on those, most are pretty similar. The Schilke Geib is more Helleberg like than all others. The Sellmansberger Symphony is Geiby as well.

To be honest, there's nothing I'm specifically looking for. Just never know what you might be missing. I'm perfectly willing to accept the idea that I'll get one or two new mouthpieces and realize my current one is better. But I've been playing funnel mouthpieces just about forever and figure it doesn't hurt to try something new.

Honestly, with the Olka CB1, the 184 has a pretty huge sound, so I'm not looking for huge. Color maybe? I don't know. Just more curiosity than anything.

I've just never sought out bowl cup mouthpieces, so I don't know if there is an accepted "epitome of bowl" mouthpieces the way a Helleberg 120 or Shilke Helleberg 2 could be considered a "this is a funnel" funnel mouthpiece.

[bloke]

To answer the “rim” question asked of me:
If I’m aware of a rim, i’m not going to like it.

…the rest of the mouthpiece:
With various F/E-flat/C/B-flat tubas, I’m using four very different cups, three different back-bores, three shanks sizes, and three embouchure opening diameters – but all with the same rim contour.

That having been said, I never blow through a mouthpiece venturi larger than 8.2mm (and often only 8mm). I’ve been rightfully accused of many shortcomings, but one of them has never been “quantity of sound”… even now that I’m old and decrepit.

[Doc]

To be honest, there's nothing I'm specifically looking for.

Maybe there is something, but you can't quite put your finger on it. If you were supremely satisfied with your current mouthpiece, you likely wouldn't be looking for something "better."

Honestly, with the Olka CB1, the 184 has a pretty huge sound, so I'm not looking for huge. Color maybe? I don't know. Just more curiosity than anything.

I've just never sought out bowl cup mouthpieces, so I don't know if there is an accepted "epitome of bowl" mouthpieces the way a Helleberg 120 or Shilke Helleberg 2 could be considered a "this is a funnel" funnel mouthpiece.

A bowl-shaped cup with give you the color you likely (and maybe subconsciously???) seek. You just have to find the right one that is the right match with you and your instrument to deliver the sound you want. All bowls are not created equal, so don't be afraid to try quite a few when you are able.

I use the Sellmansberger Solo on my F tuba, a Sellmansberger Solo w/ tall rim and extension ring (makes it a deep bowl) on my Hagen, a Symphony on my Conn 20J, an Imperial on my Eb, and an Imperial with tall rim on my 186. I also have a Stofer Geib and Laskey 30Ge which I like enough to not sell, even though I don't use them. Either of those are possibilities for a 184. Bob Tucci has a number of possibilities available. He is also glad to talk with you about them and help you find what may work best.

And how about that inexpensive Blessing 18? You might really like it, and it's worth a test. If you don't like it, you haven't spent a fortune to find out, and you can sell it fairly easily.

[the elephant]

… Sellmansberger Solo on my F tuba…

I have two of these, and one is the best mouthpiece I have ever used. The other was an attempt to recreate that, but I guess I bought the wrong parts. The one I use all the time is a one-piece job from the first batch he had milled. Neither Joe nor Houser have the specs for this one, so what I bought later was Joe's "best guess" as to what I have; it is not the same, though.

… Sellmansberger Solo w/ tall rim and extension ring (makes it a deep bowl) on my Hagen…

I have not messed with the rim extenders yet.

… Symphony on my Conn 20J…

Oh, that reminds me: I have a 24J restoration coming up, which will be put up for sale here, eventually. And I have to restore the bell and complete four-piston valve/slide section of another one to sell. (I'm going to make something fun out of the bugle.)

… Imperial on my Eb…

I need to try one of these. They sound like I would like them, but I am working hard just to keep the lights on right now.

… Imperial with tall rim on my 186…

I have a very *big* playing 186 and the Symphony is fantastic on that tuba. OMFG, man…

… I also have a Stofer Geib … which I like enough to not sell…

I keep farting around with my SG, which I love, but it has not yet sold itself to me on any of my horns. On my 345 it makes the 4th line F# and the G above that suddenly super sharp and unfixable. It is really, really pronounced. None of my other many mouthpieces cause this. It is uncanny. I can't for the life of me figure out why this would happen, but it ain't no freaking placebo effect; it's very real. However, I love the SG on other tubas, again, not as a primary mouthpiece, but I have no interest in selling it.

And how about that inexpensive Blessing 18? You might really like it, and it's worth a test. If you don't like it, you haven't spent a fortune to find out, and you can sell it fairly easily.

I'm your huckleberry.

[Doc]

… Sellmansberger Solo on my F tuba…

I have two of these, and one is the best mouthpiece I have ever used. The other was an attempt to recreate that, but I guess I bought the wrong parts. The one I use all the time is a one-piece job from the first batch he had milled. Neither Joe nor Houser have the specs for this one, so what I bought later was Joe's "best guess" as to what I have; it is not the same, though.

I've noticed that the 2pc solo I have exhibits slight-but-noticeable different sonic characteristics than the 3pc.

… Sellmansberger Solo w/ tall rim and extension ring (makes it a deep bowl) on my Hagen…

I have not messed with the rim extenders yet.

I have definitely found use for them, but, like everything, YMMV.

… Symphony on my Conn 20J…

Oh, that reminds me: I have a 24J restoration coming up, which will be put up for sale here, eventually. And I have to restore the bell and complete four-piston valve/slide section of another one to sell. (I'm going to make something fun out of the bugle.)

I hope we will get to see the progress of that project once it begins.

… Imperial on my Eb…

I need to try one of these. They sound like I would like them, but I am working hard just to keep the lights on right now.

Understood.

… Imperial with tall rim on my 186…

I have a beery *big* playing 186 and the Symphony is fantastic on that tuba. OMFG, man…

I tried the Symphony on the 186, and was not disappointed. The extended Imperial, however, seemed to bring out that vintage mojo the best on this particular instrument. If not the Imperial, the Symphony would get the nod. The Symphony might just be the best interface for you and your 186. But testing an Imperial one day will answer that question for you... if it's even a question you care to ask. It seems to me that those 186's respond really well to most mouthpieces anyway (they are damned good horns), so that gets the player off to a good start, and mouthpiece choice is less of an issue than for them compared to other instruments.

… I also have a Stofer Geib … which I like enough to not sell…

I keep farting around with my SG, which I love, but it has not yet sold itself to me on any of my horns. On my 345 it makes the 4th line F# and the G above that suddenly super sharp and unfixable. It is really, really pronounced. None of my other many mouthpieces cause this. It is uncanny. I can't for the life of me figure out why this would happen, but it ain't no freaking placebo effect; it's very real. However, I love the SG on other tubas, again, not as a primary mouthpiece, but I have no interest in selling it.

I used mine on the Kurath 90, and I can't imagine having a better, more resonant, "York" type of sound. It's a good piece for many instruments. Maybe not the 345. Hell, I'm not sure what I would stick into a 345. I'd likely try everything I own just to be sure. But I believe you when you describe the sharp F#/G phenomena. Some mp/tuba combos just don't line up.

And how about that inexpensive Blessing 18? You might really like it, and it's worth a test. If you don't like it, you haven't spent a fortune to find out, and you can sell it fairly easily.

I'm your huckleberry.

Say when.

[Mary Ann]

My 184 CC liked my PT-64. But so did the MW 182, Sam Pilafian's Besson CC, and the NStar. So take that for everything it's worth. There are times when I think it's a lot more important to be able to play the mouthpiece than it is to be able to play the tuba. I can't play a deep funnel mouthpiece, so none of my tubas liked it either.

[Rick Denney]

I have used a Solo on my 184, but I get a bit more from a Doug Elliott: T cup, TU-6 shank, and 2N132 rim. It’s a big mouthpiece but the shank has been turned down enough to fit deeply in the 184 receiver, and that seems to be important. Intonation is outstanding and it has that “fat little tuba” sound that is unique to this tuba in my fleet. This mouthpiece also works pretty well on my Eastman, but I use a Symphony or a Grand with my big tubas, to provide some context.

I use a Solo exclusively on my F, an original 2-piece version.

Rick “still experimenting” Denney