weird history with the Organ Symphony
Forum rules
This section is for posts that are directly related to performance, performers, or equipment. Social issues are allowed, as long as they are directly related to those categories. If you see a post that you cannot respond to with respect and courtesy, we ask that you do not respond at all.
This section is for posts that are directly related to performance, performers, or equipment. Social issues are allowed, as long as they are directly related to those categories. If you see a post that you cannot respond to with respect and courtesy, we ask that you do not respond at all.
- bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19331
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3853 times
- Been thanked: 4103 times
weird history with the Organ Symphony
I’m thinking I’ve only played it three times. It doesn’t “do” anything for me personally.
The odd thing is the amount that I have rehearsed it:
The first time I played it, did not rehearse it at all, and showed up for the concert - in tails - because the other guy got sick. Truth be told, I was actually sicker than the other person - but needed the money.
The second time I played it, it was a green sheet (Union subsidized) gig. The orchestra played through it one time, took a 30 minute break, the audience was let in, and we played the concert.
This last time (and I was just made aware that this is on YouTube by one of the cellists linking it to Facebook) was during the horrible shutdown, and was done with reduced strings, one rehearsal, and a concert after a one hour break – during which some “virus specialists” sprayed some magic wiffle dust in the auditorium before the patrons arrived…
… so – as this piece really doesn’t do much for me – at least I’ve not had to rehearse it very much.
I’m visible from one of the camera angles, but the music director admitted to me afterwards (walking out to the parking lot, as he and I tended to often be some of the first to leave) that he could never find me visually, but heard me, heard nothing he needed to correct, was (again: one very short rehearsal) terribly rushed, so he never worried that he was unable to spot me in the orchestra.
All three times that I performed this piece, I played it on my F tuba. I figure - since the part was written for a C euphonium, an F tuba is plenty.
Indeed, it’s plenty audible.
Though – again – the part is not particularly inspiring, the noisy stuff begins begins a little bit before 7:50. I’m thinking the first actual tuba entrance sounds like it’s around 7:00.
(we did play the entire symphony, but only this much of it - apparently - was uploaded to YouTube.)
The performance could’ve been cleaner, but this probably was about as clean as this orchestra could perform this piece spaced 6 feet apart, with reduced strings, and one run-through.
The odd thing is the amount that I have rehearsed it:
The first time I played it, did not rehearse it at all, and showed up for the concert - in tails - because the other guy got sick. Truth be told, I was actually sicker than the other person - but needed the money.
The second time I played it, it was a green sheet (Union subsidized) gig. The orchestra played through it one time, took a 30 minute break, the audience was let in, and we played the concert.
This last time (and I was just made aware that this is on YouTube by one of the cellists linking it to Facebook) was during the horrible shutdown, and was done with reduced strings, one rehearsal, and a concert after a one hour break – during which some “virus specialists” sprayed some magic wiffle dust in the auditorium before the patrons arrived…
… so – as this piece really doesn’t do much for me – at least I’ve not had to rehearse it very much.
I’m visible from one of the camera angles, but the music director admitted to me afterwards (walking out to the parking lot, as he and I tended to often be some of the first to leave) that he could never find me visually, but heard me, heard nothing he needed to correct, was (again: one very short rehearsal) terribly rushed, so he never worried that he was unable to spot me in the orchestra.
All three times that I performed this piece, I played it on my F tuba. I figure - since the part was written for a C euphonium, an F tuba is plenty.
Indeed, it’s plenty audible.
Though – again – the part is not particularly inspiring, the noisy stuff begins begins a little bit before 7:50. I’m thinking the first actual tuba entrance sounds like it’s around 7:00.
(we did play the entire symphony, but only this much of it - apparently - was uploaded to YouTube.)
The performance could’ve been cleaner, but this probably was about as clean as this orchestra could perform this piece spaced 6 feet apart, with reduced strings, and one run-through.
- Three Valves
- Posts: 4607
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:07 pm
- Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
- Has thanked: 815 times
- Been thanked: 501 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
"magic wiffle dust"
Thought Criminal
Mack Brass Artiste
TU422L with TU25
1964 Conn 36k with CB Arnold Jacobs
Accent (By B&S) 952R with Bach12
The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column
Mack Brass Artiste
TU422L with TU25
1964 Conn 36k with CB Arnold Jacobs
Accent (By B&S) 952R with Bach12
The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column
- bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19331
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3853 times
- Been thanked: 4103 times
- Three Valves
- Posts: 4607
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:07 pm
- Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
- Has thanked: 815 times
- Been thanked: 501 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
Anniversary of his death?
Same day?
It appears my "Forgotten English" word of the day calendar is incorrect.
Thought Criminal
Mack Brass Artiste
TU422L with TU25
1964 Conn 36k with CB Arnold Jacobs
Accent (By B&S) 952R with Bach12
The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column
Mack Brass Artiste
TU422L with TU25
1964 Conn 36k with CB Arnold Jacobs
Accent (By B&S) 952R with Bach12
The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
Around 7:23. Sounds pretty good to me!... the noisy stuff begins begins a little bit before 7:50
- bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19331
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3853 times
- Been thanked: 4103 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
OK I guess you’re right (earlier in 7:XX).
Something else of which I’ve grown weary of - in regards to F tuba discussions - are the auto-thought and auto-posted phrases regarding “F tubas = light sound” and “rotary F tuba = treacherous low C”.
I’d wager that if I tried to blow a valve trombone in the same way that a bass trombone needs to be blown, I would run into some similar types of problems that many claim to experience
Again, this piece really doesn’t do much for me personally. I think [1] the first movement is pretty interesting the way that the phrases begin on the second 16th notes of those sextuplets, and [2] as pre-impressionistic French romantic era music seems to be rarely programmed, that sort of defines this piece as pretty cool. Otherwise, for me it’s a typical “tuba used as the timpani of the brass“ orchestral piece…big applause, and a paycheck…
…but the person to feel sorry for is the organist. They sit and sit and sit, and then blatt out some loud notes and chords and – though they could be playing all sorts of amazing Bach toccatas, inventions, and amazing (often: French) solo works, in this piece they are simply relegated to “loud“ (OK…much as with the tuba, in countless orchestral works).
Something else of which I’ve grown weary of - in regards to F tuba discussions - are the auto-thought and auto-posted phrases regarding “F tubas = light sound” and “rotary F tuba = treacherous low C”.
I’d wager that if I tried to blow a valve trombone in the same way that a bass trombone needs to be blown, I would run into some similar types of problems that many claim to experience
Again, this piece really doesn’t do much for me personally. I think [1] the first movement is pretty interesting the way that the phrases begin on the second 16th notes of those sextuplets, and [2] as pre-impressionistic French romantic era music seems to be rarely programmed, that sort of defines this piece as pretty cool. Otherwise, for me it’s a typical “tuba used as the timpani of the brass“ orchestral piece…big applause, and a paycheck…
…but the person to feel sorry for is the organist. They sit and sit and sit, and then blatt out some loud notes and chords and – though they could be playing all sorts of amazing Bach toccatas, inventions, and amazing (often: French) solo works, in this piece they are simply relegated to “loud“ (OK…much as with the tuba, in countless orchestral works).
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
This piece has a special place for me because of how much my (then-4-year-old) daughter latched onto it. I played the finale for her in the car one day, and she decided it was just great. So from then on, she would ask for "The WAH song"* and refuse to get out of the car until it was over.
*Because the brass goes WAAAH to punctuate the organ's statement of the main them.
She also loves the canzon per sonare no. 2, which is "The song we listened to yesterday" because the first time she asked for it, we had listened to it "yesterday," and the name just stuck. So now, 3 years later, it is still "the song we listened to yesterday," and I have no desire to correct it.
*Because the brass goes WAAAH to punctuate the organ's statement of the main them.
She also loves the canzon per sonare no. 2, which is "The song we listened to yesterday" because the first time she asked for it, we had listened to it "yesterday," and the name just stuck. So now, 3 years later, it is still "the song we listened to yesterday," and I have no desire to correct it.
- bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19331
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3853 times
- Been thanked: 4103 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
admission:tubanh84 wrote:things about his daughter
I was the baby in the family. My parents – were they alive - would be about 106 years old, I knew all four of my grandparents very well – who were all born in the 1880s with one of them having been born in 1881, I have a brother who will turn 80 next spring and a sister who isn’t far behind.
Reportedly, when the toilet paper or paper towel roll was empty, I (as a toddler who had just graduated from infancy) would grab the cardboard tube and run around the house going “WOOOOOOOOOOoooooo!!!!” Into those things with my mouth. When I was older, I asked why everyone in my family called those cardboard tubes “woos”, and they all laughed.
Not trying to become too introspective here, but lately I’ve wondered if the reason I always tend to hang out with people older than myself - including gigs and just about everything – had been because of the family in which I grew up.… (Of course, now that a bunch of my friends and associates have popped off, I’ve had to sort of rethink that strategy. I seem to have found a group of new friends and associates who apparently like to hang out with older people, as did I.) Whatever.
Last edited by bloke on Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
The International Staff band of the salvation army had an arrangement where the band played all parts including the organ. Sounded like it would be much more fun.
-
- Posts: 340
- Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:23 pm
- Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
- Has thanked: 53 times
- Been thanked: 94 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
Actually, we do hear the organ in the second movement but it's very subdued.bloke wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:32 am OK I guess you’re right (earlier in 7:XX).
Something else of which I’ve grown weary of - in regards to F tuba discussions - are the auto-thought and auto-posted phrases regarding “F tubas = light sound” and “rotary F tuba = treacherous low C”.
I’d wager that if I tried to blow a valve trombone in the same way that a bass trombone needs to be blown, I would run into some similar types of problems that many claim to experience
Again, this piece really doesn’t do much for me personally. I think [1] the first movement is pretty interesting the way that the phrases begin on the second 16th notes of those sextuplets, and [2] as pre-impressionistic French romantic era music seems to be rarely programmed, that sort of defines this piece as pretty cool. Otherwise, for me it’s a typical “tuba used as the timpani of the brass“ orchestral piece…big applause, and a paycheck…
…but the person to feel sorry for is the organist. They sit and sit and sit, and then blatt out some loud notes and chords and – though they could be playing all sorts of amazing Bach toccatas, inventions, and amazing (often: French) solo works, in this piece they are simply relegated to “loud“ (OK…much as with the tuba, in countless orchestral works).
To me, that whole symphony feels like a journey from darkness and confusion into light and clarity. If you want the opposite, see Mahler 6.
And yes, my favorite movement starts with that huge C-major organ chord.
Principal tuba, Bel Air Community Band
Old (early 1900s?) Alexander BBb proto-163
1976 Sonora (B&S 101) 4-rotor BBb
1964 Conn 20J/21J BBb (one body, both bells)
1970s Marzan Slant-rotor BBb
~1904 York 3P BBb Helicon
Old Alex Comp.F, in shop
Old (early 1900s?) Alexander BBb proto-163
1976 Sonora (B&S 101) 4-rotor BBb
1964 Conn 20J/21J BBb (one body, both bells)
1970s Marzan Slant-rotor BBb
~1904 York 3P BBb Helicon
Old Alex Comp.F, in shop
- Casca Grossa
- Posts: 334
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:06 am
- Location: Reading, PA, United States
- Has thanked: 246 times
- Been thanked: 159 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
That brass wooo in F sounds pretty good on this tune.
- These users thanked the author Casca Grossa for the post:
- bloke (Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:55 am)
Mirafone 184 CC
Blokepiece Imperial
Soon to be 5 valve Lignatone/Amati Eb
Blokepiece Solo
Blokepiece Imperial
Soon to be 5 valve Lignatone/Amati Eb
Blokepiece Solo
- bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19331
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3853 times
- Been thanked: 4103 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
This is even more of a non sequitur to the topic and even more unnecessarily personal, but this might give you an idea of how disjunct I am - generationally - in relation to the rest of my family.
My sister is on the right in the lower front row, and my brother is third from the left in the back row.
- These users thanked the author bloke for the post:
- Casca Grossa (Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:04 pm)
- Three Valves
- Posts: 4607
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:07 pm
- Location: The Land of Pleasant Living
- Has thanked: 815 times
- Been thanked: 501 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
So like myself, you have always been a gifted and handsome bundle of joy...
Thought Criminal
Mack Brass Artiste
TU422L with TU25
1964 Conn 36k with CB Arnold Jacobs
Accent (By B&S) 952R with Bach12
The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column
Mack Brass Artiste
TU422L with TU25
1964 Conn 36k with CB Arnold Jacobs
Accent (By B&S) 952R with Bach12
The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column
- bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19331
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3853 times
- Been thanked: 4103 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
…and disjunct, generationally, by a decade and a half or more.
The three other people - in that picture, who are still alive (siblings and first cousin) - are approaching 80.
The rest of them were all gone a quarter of a century and much more ago.
The three other people - in that picture, who are still alive (siblings and first cousin) - are approaching 80.
The rest of them were all gone a quarter of a century and much more ago.
-
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:28 pm
- Has thanked: 43 times
- Been thanked: 12 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
I am so intrigued by the sound you get on that F…My only tuba is a compensating Eb with a 17” bell, and I love that it has some guts. In my mind, F horns tend to sound more…hollow?bland? But you don’t, and I’m curious why that is. Is it really the case that by going too broad and large for a given length of bugle(like a lot of CC an F tubas, seemingly) you actually sacrifice the portion of the overtone series which causes a tuba to project with clarity? I’d really love to hear more recordings of that horn if you have them.
- bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19331
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3853 times
- Been thanked: 4103 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
- F tuba mouthpipes / bore sizes / mouthpieces / bell throats - all are usually too large… this goes back to the 1980s when stinky F tubas - and stinky F tuba playing - were blamed on the instruments not being large enough.
- The best of the B&S Symphonie Modell F tubas are the best F tubas on the planet.
- I’ve spent way to much time playing that tuba over the past 40 years, because - for several of those years - it was the only tuba I owned.
I’m not sure if I recalled the three times that I played this piece correctly above… I’ll check later:
- This recording was the third time, and there was only one rehearsal and one run through.
- The previous time was the second time, and there was only one rehearsal and only one run through.
- The first time was when someone else got sick, and I was called to play the concert with no rehearsal. Humorously and disastrously - that time, the organist got lost.
- The best of the B&S Symphonie Modell F tubas are the best F tubas on the planet.
- I’ve spent way to much time playing that tuba over the past 40 years, because - for several of those years - it was the only tuba I owned.
I’m not sure if I recalled the three times that I played this piece correctly above… I’ll check later:
- This recording was the third time, and there was only one rehearsal and one run through.
- The previous time was the second time, and there was only one rehearsal and only one run through.
- The first time was when someone else got sick, and I was called to play the concert with no rehearsal. Humorously and disastrously - that time, the organist got lost.
Last edited by bloke on Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:28 pm
- Has thanked: 43 times
- Been thanked: 12 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
I’m curious if you’ve handled the ZO manufactured F Mack brass sells modeled after those horns, and if you think they’re any good. Genuine Symphonie horns being, well, not the easiest to come by.
- bloke
- Mid South Music
- Posts: 19331
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 am
- Location: western Tennessee - near Memphis
- Has thanked: 3853 times
- Been thanked: 4103 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
I played a five valve one at the army conference a few years ago – not knowing that the six valve version was also there.
I thought it was pretty good.
No one seems to have the courage to start an F tuba mouthpipe taper at around a half an inch, and they all seem to want to start them larger… but B&S has done the same thing with everything they’re making these days.
——
Are those instruments - to which you refer - all brass, with no nickel silver parts?
I thought it was pretty good.
No one seems to have the courage to start an F tuba mouthpipe taper at around a half an inch, and they all seem to want to start them larger… but B&S has done the same thing with everything they’re making these days.
——
Are those instruments - to which you refer - all brass, with no nickel silver parts?
-
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:28 pm
- Has thanked: 43 times
- Been thanked: 12 times
Re: weird history with the Organ Symphony
The website doesn’t specify, so my assumption is yes. Maybe swapping a leadpipe could be a worthwhile experiment…