bringing opinions to the fore from another forum

[bloke]

In your opinion/experience, what are the PERCENTAGES of these (they should all add up to 100%) that affect the highest possible pricing of a USED readily-available manufactured model?

percentage of 100%, regarding how much each of these affects pricing...

CONDITION ___
POPULARITY OF THE MODEL ___
FINISH ___
AGE ___
PROVENANCE ___
LOCATION (ie. proximity to many millions of people, vs. to a few thousand people) ___
COST OF SHIPPING OR SELLER'S WILLINGNESS TO TRAVEL ___
ACCESSORIES INCLUDED ___
FINANCING OPTIONS ___
WILLINGNESS TO TRADE ___
SELLER REPUTATION ___
THE BREADTH OF ADVERTISING ___ (tubenet/tubaforum/facebook's various pages, reverb, ebay, etc.)
DEALERS OF THE PARTICULAR BRAND RAVING ABOUT A MAKE/MODEL IN A FOR-SALE THREAD ___
TESTIMONIES FROM SELLERS' FRIENDS ___
QUALITY OF INTERNET PICTURES ___
THE ABILITY TO PLAY-TEST/INSPECT IN-PERSON ___
RETURN OPTION ___


Please try to have these seventeen percentages (or more, if you think of more) add up to 100%...ie. If all are just about equal, they they should all be around 6 percent.
Also, please point out factors that I failed to consider.

[Lee Stofer]

Mr. Bloke,
I'll consider it more after work, but Finish is listed twice, and I think that the percentages could vary quite a bit, because of what the
instrument is, and who is the targeted buyer - very interesting!

[Rick Denney]

The reason I couldn’t answer this is because these factors are not additive. 16 of those factors could add up to 85% but still be negated by a zero in the last two. Or a 70 might be a solid deal while a 90 is a fail because of the factor that was a zero.

Weighting factors are factors—they multiply, not add.

Rick “buying decisions are not usually completely rational, especially for art apparatus” Denney

[bort2.0]

"It depends"

Best I can do, sorry Joe.

[bloke]

...or "no reply, because I don't like the way it was put" is perfectly acceptable as well.

yeah...I admit that it was awkwardly put.

[2nd tenor]

The model that Bloke puts forward just doesn’t work for me. For me there are deal breakers and makers (like say red, green and amber lights), total (cumulative) percentage is not a factor that’s considered. Maybe two charts are needed with one defining acceptability to consider a purchase and the other attractiveness of one purchase over another.

As a Brass Band player I wouldn’t by a Tuba pitched in either F or C, and I wouldn’t buy a recording horn either. They could be darn near free and I still wouldn’t buy them, well maybe other than to flip.

I wouldn’t buy a Tuba that stretched my budget, no matter how good it was it’s still got to be affordable.

If there is no transport between me and the seller then there’s no sale.

If the seller has little to no credibility then there will either be no sale or the price has got to be particularly affordable and total loss acceptable - a gamble.

I think that the the time of year effects pricing, that factor is not on the list.

[ken herrick]

PLEASE, PLEASE,PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!

SOMEBODY give Joe some work to do - he has WAY too much time on his hands again!

[bloke]

Yeah, it's not a very good thread topic, but I was brainstorming about different things that motivate people to buy musical instruments, and how much those different things affect potential buyers (beyond pricing).

I could ask for it to be taken down, but just because I dropped a big turd in the middle of this forum doesn't mean that people shouldn't know that I did it...

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[bloke]

Not sure where this fits into the poll (maybe it doesn’t?), but I usually buy stuff like instruments because I’m curious about a particular model. I might or might not sell it when the curiosity has been satisfied. My choices usually don’t include what’s popular (but, occasionally have if priced right because I pretty much never buy new). I sometimes get paid to play (rarely, post-pandemic), but don’t count on it, ever, so I’m rarely worried if the current choice isn’t optimal for me. I can usually make it work well enough while investigating.

There always seems like there’s lots of active tuba and other brass players around here, so it’s easy enough to move stuff down the road when I’m through poking at it.

Maybe I’m the guy that skews sales (sorry! ) because I tend to only buy cheap and then sell cheap (just enough to cover my costs and have it move quickly).

If I'm understanding you correctly, I've done the same thing more than once. Some new model gets hyped on a place like this and everybody says It's amazing, but that model never shows up in elephant rooms.. and if you don't know what an Elephant Room is, someone will explain it. I've been known to buy instruments like that used in new condition - when I knew that the pricing was low enough that I could sell it for the same or a little more, and get the opportunity to check it out for myself. Every time I've done that, I've been disappointed in the model (whatever model that might have been), and advertised it for sale within a week.

In contrast, one time I was terribly impressed with a new model of tuba, but it took about a decade for me to locate one to purchase that fit my pricing parameters and condition parameters, as it was a model that only ended up being manufactured in a very small quantity. In the form of posts here, I've been talking everyone's ear off about it, but I suspect I'm boring everyone, because it's not a popular length of tuba and neither is it a the model du jour. In fact, it's passe - already having been replaced by another model, by the manufacturer.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[Stryk]

CONDITION _30__
POPULARITY OF THE MODEL ___
FINISH ___
AGE __5_
PROVENANCE __10_
LOCATION (ie. proximity to many millions of people, vs. to a few thousand people) ___
COST OF SHIPPING OR SELLER'S WILLINGNESS TO TRAVEL __20_
ACCESSORIES INCLUDED ___
FINANCING OPTIONS __0_
WILLINGNESS TO TRADE _5__
SELLER REPUTATION __10_
THE BREADTH OF ADVERTISING __0_ (tubenet/tubaforum/facebook's various pages, reverb, ebay, etc.)
DEALERS OF THE PARTICULAR BRAND RAVING ABOUT A MAKE/MODEL IN A FOR-SALE THREAD _0__
TESTIMONIES FROM SELLERS' FRIENDS _5__
QUALITY OF INTERNET PICTURES __10_
THE ABILITY TO PLAY-TEST/INSPECT IN-PERSON _5__
RETURN OPTION _0__

PRICE!

[bloke]

Yeah, it's not a very good thread topic, but I was brainstorming about different things that motivate people to buy musical instruments, and how much those different things affect potential buyers (beyond pricing).

I could ask for it to be taken down, but just because I dropped a big turd in the middle of this forum doesn't mean that people shouldn't know that I did it...

It’s an interesting topic, but difficult to fully separate variables, as @Rick Denney pointed out.

And sometimes there are individual thresholds that change the equation. Like as popularity of a model wanes, other factors rebalance in some nonlinear way.

[bloke]

yeah...but it's a hodge-podge, and not well conceived by me.

All of it is "Other than price..."

[arpthark]

yeah...but it's a hodge-podge, and not well conceived by me.

All of it is "Other than price..."

It’s marketing, and marketing is a messy thing since it deals with human psychology.

I think the following things help regarding selling a tuba:

Photos. Lots of photos. Good quality photos. Especially ones that show the overall condition of the horn as well as point out any issues. A well lit place is your friend. Edit stuff out like your feet, shoes or not.

Words describing the horn in plain terms with little to no puffery. My opinion is that people should list things like age, bore size, dimensions, etc. so that people unfamiliar with the instrument can understand what it is. Don’t expect people to google. Furthermore, making people google will also likely bring up records of prior sales of the same instrument and they will use the lowest price found as an entry point to negotiations.

Interesting facts about the development of the horn may be useful. Like stating that the 2165 was designed in part by Warren Deck during his tenure in the NYPO. Or if I were selling my Conn/King, I’d detail who built it and when it was made.

An honest assessment of the intonation. I always find it humorous how many horns being sold play in tune better than average. And if you do provide an assessment of intonation, provide the mouthpiece used. For example, if someone were selling a YFB-621 and said the upper register was flat and their main mouthpiece was a Bach 18, that might be useful information. (I used a Bach 18 on my YFB-621 and the upper register was flat because the cup was too damn deep.)

If selling a case and/or gig bag, photos of those as well. Inside the case. Outside the case. Horn in the case. Closeups of hardware.

Unless you’re selling an instrument aimed at a beginner, no one wants your nicked up Yamaha 67C4 that you found in a locker in college.

I do not believe that videos of recitals do much for a sale. A seasoned player understands that the room, mouthpiece, player, and method of recording make a huge difference on what’s being perceived. With that being said, if someone asks for a video of a few scales being played as a first cut of intonation problems, that seems reasonable.

The impact of location has become super important as of late. No idea if that will remain the case.

Pricing isn’t as clear cut as it seems. As mentioned above, no one has a database of what things actually sold for. Maybe the last listing price. And with listing that went quickly, one can assume the listed price is close to the sale price, but it’s not a given.

If I were to sell a tuba now, I’d expect to spend about an hour taking photos, writing up the post, and getting the photos uploaded to somewhere like imgur. If someone is investing time in the post, it implies the instrument is worth the price. If the post is the bare minimum with a few off angle and poorly lit photos, then I’m going to assume the person just wants to dump the horn and thus invested no time in putting together the post.

Further, when selling a $$$$ to $$$$$ instrument, that extra effort will probably get paid back in terms of turnaround time on the sale and the final negotiated price.

tl;dr Don’t be lazy and be a professional even when selling.

[bloke]

I notice asking prices that specific things do NOT sell for and I notice things in pictures that turn me off. I also notice some of the stuff you were talking about including hocus-pocus and nonsense'speak that would cause most anyone to raise their eyebrows.

I like selling instruments for more money than I bought them for, and I make a little bit of my living off of that, but I find it really difficult to promote instruments that I just don't like. Over the years it's probably cost me a whole lot of money, because I've passed up some pretty good deals on stuff that I just don't like, because I just didn't think I was up to the task of talking them up in an ad. I don't think it's immoral to talk up stuff that I don't like - because other people like stuff that I don't like, but I'm just not a very good actor.

[Three Valves]

I find it really difficult to promote instruments that I just don't like.

Same.

Be it motor or financial vehicles, or insurance or anything.

I only sell things I'd buy.

[Mary Ann]

I think nearly 100% is "what is the buyer looking for?" because that narrows down every other factor to nearly zero. It isn't how it is advertised but what the buyer wants and how close the buyer can come to finding that.

I've bought tubas based on what they were first, followed by condition second, followed by how easily I could get them, third. None of the ones I've owned, have I been able to play test them first; it was always find it, decide based on condition vs price, and ship it. Except going up to Phx to re-get the Star, in which case I knew what I was getting, but when I got it the first time --- I paid ahead and then informed the seller I was keeping it instead of shipping it back. (That was back when shipping was not so insane.)

I pay very little attention to the caterwauling of a dealer of a particular brand; they have to do that. Look at a very well nationally advertised company that imports their own designs from China, and how each one is this wonderful, wonderful, you-won't-believe-how-good-this-is until the next upgrade comes through, in which case you need to throw out that piece of trash you own and buy the wonderful, wonderful, wonderful upgraded one. That is why I buy what I do.

[Charlie C Chowder]

In my case being a short person, ergonomics. I cannot reach the fourth valve of most front action piston valved tubas. Thus the purchase of the one and only one that I could.

CCC

[bloke]

I've run into some people who refuse to buy things from people they detest or just find to be a little bit annoying. I've never been that way. Once I get past putting up with the seller, and as long as I pay what I want to pay for what I want, the seller no longer owns what I bought and they might as well not exist, as far as I'm concerned.. unless they have something else in the future that I also would like to buy.

...The same thing isn't true, though, for these huge corporate enemies of the people. I will quietly boycott them - as do scores of millions of others. There are more than one place to buy whatever any huge corporation sells, no matter how large.

Speaking of which, a really large percentage of people I speak to don't watch any television news - neither broadcast nor cable, and regardless of the brand of propaganda they purvey) and this includes local.