Bach 18 in Stainless?

[Stryk]

I have tried a couple dozen different mouthpieces on my new Alex. I keep going back to my old Bach 18, but I do NOT like brass mouthpieces. I feel like I am going down a rabbit hole searching for something, but I want a stainless mp as close to that 18 as I can get. Any suggestions?

[hrender]

Kelly makes a nice 18 in plastic, but for some reason I think it's the only one of their models that they don't offer in stainless steel. It might be worth an inquiry. The only other option I know is to see if someone like Dave Houser would duplicate yours. It's one of their listed services. Giddings also does duplication.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[matt g]

I’d imagine Ivan Giddings can make a stainless steel 18 copy as well. He’s got a pretty good setup now.

[donn]

I think I would like to have a stainless 18 if it was close to the ones I like.

Good point - it isn't like all the Bach 18s out there are all identical.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[bloke]

If you're not allergic to chrome or nickel, you might consider having an 18 stainless nickel plated.

[Stryk]

I’d imagine Ivan Giddings can make a stainless steel 18 copy as well. He’s got a pretty good setup now.

I asked and he doesn't have time to do that.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[Stryk]

I kind of thought maybe $550 - $1200 was the “don’t ask” price range.

True that!

[LeMark]

what is it about Brass that you dont like? I like stainless too, but If I couldn't get a stainless MP I liked, I would get something gold plated

[bloke]

' gotta really be religious about shaving, if gold or silver is going to remain as smooth as polished steel.

me...??

When I'm playing my euphonium and any other silver/gold-plated brass mouthpieces, they tend to stay smooth/shiny, because I AM really conscientious about shaving (close) prior to playing. (I also never set mouthpiece face-down - other than a handful - on anything other than one little cedar surface, and those are a few that I BOUGHT imperfect - as "reference" mouthpieces).

I don't play as well with beard stubble, so there are TWO reasons why I shave prior to playing.

[Stryk]

what is it about Brass that you dont like? I like stainless too, but If I couldn't get a stainless MP I liked, I would get something gold plated

Weight, feeling, dent and ding resistance.....

[bloke]

As a purveyor and designer of stainless steel mouthpieces, I think I need to let you know that various alloys of stainless steel - compared to various alloys of brass - all weigh just about the same, even though this ("about the same weight") may cause you to rethink buying my stainless steel mouthpieces. My mouthpieces are fairly lightweight, simply because I don't have big blobs of material outside of the cups or below the cups.

Back when I was selling those lightweight stainless steel finger buttons, the reason they were lightweight is because stainless steel is stronger, and they could be made very thin with little risk of the threads breaking off of the thin flat round surface.

off on a bit of a tangent:
Just in case someone doesn't understand why I don't still sell those finger buttons anymore, it's because it was labor-intensive to make them (just a few at a time) and to have a thousand or so of them run off, I just never believed that I would sell another 250 sets of them, particularly not in a reasonable amount of time. Aditionally, some people who assumed they had M4 x .7 threaded stems sometimes did not, and would complain that the M4 x .7 threaded buttons didn't fit their stems, and it's easier to just not offer a product than to get complaints about it. Finally, some stems are slightly different variations of that same thread with the pitch, depth, and such being slightly different. Stainless steel isn't forgiving, as is brass. When I would suggest that someone maybe buy a $5 or $6 M4 x .7 tap from eBay - and barely adjust the threads on their stems, no one seemed to want it to do this...so there's the answer to why I no longer have these made or offer them for sale.

[donn]

maybe buy a $5 or $6 M4 x .7 tap from eBay - and barely adjust the threads on their stems, no one seemed to want it to do this...

I've run a tap into some threads that needed a little "adjusting" on my tuba, and it feels really creepy. Of course it has nothing to do with the cost of the tap, it's more about the cost of the tuba, or at least cost/difficulty of replacement of the part that's being adjusted. I had the reassurance that comes from previous reasonably successful experience with thread tapping over the top of existing threads of similar dimension, but I couldn't tell you what exactly happens in there and what the odds might be of ruining the piece.

[bloke]

...and "someone else overcoming their own reluctance" (or not even buying a $6 tap and - at least measuring the diameter of the $6 tap, measuring the diameter of their oem brass threads - with their $20 Chinese calipers, and mating up the tap - threads-to-threads - with those of their original brass buttons (while looking at the mated threads towards a window, etc.) ...and then doing the very same thing with the stainless steel buttons they had purchased from me - in order to see how very LITTLE those threads actually differ...)ie. [consumer] "I'm going to go ahead and run this $6 tap into my stems, as I can clearly SEE that the threads are NEARLY identical.")

...THAT's why (along with the "250 sets" thing) I stopped selling them. (We were actually "custom-adjusting" threads for people [ex: buzzing them down to something like M3.95, and then "free-postage-ing them back] - as consumers were unwilling to spend $6 on a tap - not necessarily to use the tap without even evaluating the situation - but in order to explore the issue themselves.)

Other people - even though we clearly stated the thread size - had M4 x .75 stems or SAE 8-32 (usually: USA) stems...(along with not being willing to spend $6 on a tap and doing some inspection, but also) not being willing to google their stem threads, ask experienced repair people about their stem threads, or ask manufacturers.

Of course, I knew that those buttons wouldn't screw into to USA/SAE stems, and I also knew that wouldn't fit ....5 stems, but (just in my own experience) I NEVER encountered any B&S/M-W (or several other continental European stems) that those buttons did NOT fit...(though I believe that others did.)

I'm certainly not "blaming" anyone for ANYthing, and it DID teach me more about consumers and human nature.

bloke "It certainly wasn't worth me investing thousands of dollars, certainly not if it wasn't worth some consumers doing some no-cost-to-them investigation or spending $6 on an eBay tap...so I have one or two sets here - in case I have any Euro/Chino piston tubas again, in the future. "

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[donn]

And taps and dies are scary (No, they’re not. Someone has already used both taps and dies on your thing).

That is in fact exactly why I find them scary.

I have a Kalison tuba whose valve section is affixed to the bugle in several places with small bolts. When it came into my hands, a couple of bolts were missing, and the instrument repair place that removed the dents from the bell and replaced the leadpipe bolt, wasn't interested in pursuing the valve section bolts - didn''t have anything that would fit, etc. Well, no surprise, they were some very odd, unobtainable thread, close but not identical to 8-32. So I ran an 8-32 tap through the threaded part, and used 8-32 bolts. I believe this is the kind of thing we're talking about.

The first time those threads were cut, sure, someone used a tap. They started with a smaller hole, and cut the threads into the side of that hole. Cool.

What I did, though, was put sort of new threads, near where the old threads were. Ideally, some of those threads are not much changed, but some of the new thread crests are where there were thread roots before. (The valley between threads is a "root", the peak is a "crest" according to the page I'm looking at.) How does that work? Is the brass plastic enough that the whole region around the threads moves around, or are there some dislocated threads, and the tuba stays together just because the there are still enough threads left that I didn't wreck? I'm not a machinist, obviously, so I put my tuba at risk when I do stuff like this. I can understand why someone might not care to do stuff like this with theirs.

[bloke]

The very size that is close to 8-32 (but not) is M4 x .7

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/foru ... 4-7.298860

If someone (or factory) drills a pilot hole (for tapping) sloppily, it's often possible to muscle one into the other...and it's NOT uncommon for pilot holes to be drilled larger than spec., because (just as with the stainless steel finger buttons) they don't want ANY tension screws nor lyre screws (nor cheater/E-Z buffing job valve section screws) that fail to screw in...

...Several manufacturers are (and have been) doing this with pistons and casings - for quite a while (or since forever).

Yamaha tuba finger buttons can often/eventually (without re-tapping) be muscled into 8-32 threaded stems...as long as someone takes their time, and works the finger button back-and-forth. I personally like the looks of the "professional" (genuine m.o.p.) Yamaha finger buttons on Holton 345 tubas (more than I like those bulky/supposed-to-be-like-one-off-York buttons)...and the Yamaha buttons also weigh a helluva lot less than those first-appeared-on-Yorkbrunner massive buttons.

There are a few metric/standard lyre screws that follow this narrative. I don't do this on individuals' instruments (nor instruments worth anything), but - if in a tremendous hurry (someone's else deadline), and fresh out of "whatever" lyre screws - I might (??) do this on some old straightened-back-out-for-the-twentieth-time MARCHING instrument, but the correct screw will always still screw into the same lyre holder.

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.