Favorite Valve oil for pistons?

[tofu]

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[donn]

I continue to think there are different things on the shelves, marketed as "lamp oil." Some people get gunk, some people smell fumes, some get an odorless liquid, some no gunk. The term "paraffin" is confusing here, to American a hard wax, to the English is what Americans call kerosene, but "mineral oil" is sometimes called paraffin oil, etc. What it really means is next to nothing, other than they're all derived from petroleum. But whatever you call it, people report differing experiences.

I couldn't find anything here that didn't have headache-causing fumes, so I'm reduced to using valve oil purchased at the music store. Seems to work.

[bloke]

I would never purchase lamp oil from a store, because it sits there way too long and putrifies, the same thing happens to gasoline in a funky vehicle that's sitting in the middle of someone's front yard.

I buy it online, and I am selective about how I purchase it; I always pick the one that's the cheapest. I feel confident that I always get the same product, it always behaves in the same manner (in a thin and slippery way), and is always odorless.

Someday - when I get some better instruments or decide that I want my valves to work really well for a change, I might buy some more expensive oil. It looks like all one has to do is to spend 30 or 40 times as much to have it arrive labeled as "valve oil" in cute little bottles.

If I were the type that liked selling little things at a big markup, this would certainly be one of them, but even selling synthetic piston washers was too much of a nuisance for me.

[donn]

Another evidence of multiple different things by the same name. The stuff I got (off the shelf, in Seattle) was stable.

[arpthark]

I have owned a big jug of lamp oil for like 6 or 7 years and it has remained odorless, colorless, and still lubricates just fine.

This stuff: https://www.hobbylobby.com/Home-Decor-F ... LTuZ9s99dA

[Dents Be Gone!]

I agree, guys. This is the way to go.

[arpthark]

I have owned a big jug of lamp oil for like 6 or 7 years and it has remained odorless, colorless, and still lubricates just fine.

This stuff: https://www.hobbylobby.com/Home-Decor-F ... LTuZ9s99dA

Just out of curiosity, is there a “best before” or manufacturing date on the bottle? There was some of that at a local grocery store and I want to say I remember seeing a date of some kind on the bottle. Would it matter? Not really sure.

I will check next time I get a chance.

[bloke]

Most of you never had a rental program and didn't pick up a bunch of nice used trumpets whenever you could find them cheap. I've thrown away dozens of old bottles of valve oil that were putrid from age, and I've used dozens of other half bottles of old oil from those things in my own tubas that were not putrid. I'm not sure there's an explanation of why some of them don't turn and why some of them do.

I'm sure people are extraordinarily weary of me discussing the importance of really well made valves - which are very clean and free of scale - as well as not putting big blobs of thick grease on slides (which are anywhere near valves) over the importance of which oil is chosen.

When there's a $1,800 copy of a $9,000 tuba, the valves are going to be where the most corners are cut.

There are a couple of Asian factories that - based on what I've seen - offer 8.5 or 9 out of 10 quality pistons and rotors. They still aren't 10, but they're darn good. There's one factory in China that offers the best piston to casing and rotor to casing machine fit. That factory still could improve some other details on their products, but - the valve and casing stuff: they've pretty much got licked. Who knows if that quality will stay the same, or if the quality of some of the others I've mentioned will move up to equal the quality of that factory. Most of the valves on most of the instruments that come out of China I would probably rate a 7 out of 10, these days... that's certainly an improvement over the past, but valve oil can't solve all of those last-three-out-of-ten problems, and a particular valve oil can't solve all of those problems, just as it can't solve damage, scale and filth problems, and nor can it solve slide grease mixing with valve oil problems.

I believe the special valve oil beliefs are very similar to the types of car owners (and even some mechanics) who swear by potions and additives to engine oil, to solve problems which exist with crappy or worn out automobile engines.
Mechanics who really do involved engine disassembly work tend to not mention such potions, but discuss the mechanics and causes of the problems more - even referring to some makes and models of engines as "throwaways" or "disposables". It's pretty much indisputable that synthetic oils and better grade smaller particle oil filters extend the lives of automobile engines, but we are not moving our pistons at 3,000 - 4,000 strokes per minute for hours at a time, and nor are we heating them up to hundreds of degrees Fahrenheit.

[arpthark]

I have five or six random bottles of random stuff that have just accumulated as I've bought and sold tubas. Al Cass, a ton of Hetman's, Conn (stinky! should probably toss it), Blue Juice. I keep my horns clean and use whatever, currently Al Cass. I use lamp oil in my shop because I have a big jug of it out there, and put it in a little dropper bottle. I also use 3-in-1 when I need something thicker, for rotor linkage and whatnot.

The only, only weird reaction I've ever had with an oil was when I was in college and used this stuff that had recently come out called "berp bio-oil." I think it was canola oil based or something. I didn't play for a couple weeks over one summer, and when I went back to the horn, this crap had basically polymerized in my valves -- they were all coated with this very thin green layer of tough, rubbery plastic, impossible to break up without removing the valves and washing them, and it smelled like (surprise) rancid canola oil. Since then I've been decidedly low-maintenance with valve oil.

[bloke]

Yeah, someone gave me some bio oil and I was nice and thanked them, but I gave it to somebody else - unopened.

Two or three times in the past, I have worked my tail off getting vegetable oil off of pistons or rotors. Terrible terrible terrible terrible.

[GC]

Blue Juice. My Packer Eb came with Ultra-Pure, and valves stuck too much and need cleaning early. Went to Blue Juice, much better. Tried UP again, same problem, now back with Blue Juice. I'll try lamp oil when my Blue Juice runs out. One of my section mates swears by it.

[bort2.0]

I have some actual oil lamps, and pre-children, we would use them regularly around the house. In fact, when Hurricane Sandy knocked out our power (in Manhattan) for 8 days, we had plenty of oil to keep our lamps lighted and not have to sit around in the dark like the rest of the building. A Hanukkah miracle in October.

I've used ultra pure on my valves, and it's nice, but it doesn't last very long. Hetmans seems to last a lot longer, to the point where I don't remember ever buying it.

My all time favorite from long ago, and I'm not sure if they still make it, was BiNak 495. If you didn't clean things thoroughly first, it was a wreck. But with some Dawn and a casing brush, I cleaned out my tubas well, a few drops of BiNak, and never a single issue. And almost never had to oil them again. The bottle lasted forever, and I only got rid of it because it was in my backpack and broke open and leaked everywhere. Loved it on my 1291, and many years before that it was excellent on my Conn sousaphones in college marching band.

Other tuba players in the section would ask me why my valves didn't suck. 1) clean your horn and 2) dont eat and then play your horn and 3) oil and stuff.

[donn]

Back when I started reading TubeNet, it seems to me bear grease was a thing.

[Pauvog1]

Do all oils built up shellac on the inner walls of the pistons? Give me some recommendations to use with pretty tight tolerances.

I really like Monster oil. They have different thicknesses: thin, regular, and thick. They also have 2 rotor oils. Not too expensive, sees to work/last as good as anything else. I switched about 4 or 5 years ago, no complaints.

[bloke]

@bort2.0

We have power outages from time to time, and it's always oak trees that have been blown over in storms falling on power lines. Our local co-op is amazing, and they get stuff fixed within hours or - at the most - a day or two when it's countywide. This summer, they've been going down the unoccupied wooded properties in the county and cutting back even farther from the power lines, and this is a 700 square mile county, so - again - they are pretty amazing.

The point is that we have several oil lamps here in the house that we use during those outages, and we've been working off a couple of half gallons of oil that Mrs. bloke bought - marked WAY down (only 3 or 4 cents an ounce) at a store that - sure enough - were both rancid, because they've been sitting there for so many years waiting for somebody to purchase them, but they burn just fine and hardly give off a scent at all when burning...but I don't want to smell the strong petroleum odor of old oil in my instruments. Again, the gallons that I use out in the shop and on my own instruments are probably only 1 to 4 years old, and -after a while - get used up, because I use them generously both in the shop and on my own instruments.

Again, many of us know that valve oil also eventually develops the same bad odor, because it's basically the same substance. It might have a scent or a color added or a tiny amount of thicker oil blended in, but - if it's regular valve - it's going to be just about the same stuff.

Valve oil lasting for quite a few days (as some people boast with some synthetics) without needing re-oiling (to me) is not a desirable characteristic, because (to me) one of the most important purposes of valve oil is to continuously re-coat the inside of the valve section (and not just the valves, but other remote surfaces) to prevent lime scale from forming on the inside of an instrument.
_________________________

I can only use words to talk about how fantastic my valves work and feel under my fingers and how free of scale the insides of my instruments are. People are going to believe it or not believe it, and no one's going to drive here from even 50 miles away to look and see. Again, taking stuff apart and cleaning it is what I do for money, and no one's going to pay me to clean my own so I don't want to have to.

[arpthark]

Fondly remembering the time I emailed Joe after playing his old Thor and saying something to the degree of "wow, the valves are great!" and I got a reply akin to " I know, you dummy."

[bloke]

[arpthark]

I have owned a big jug of lamp oil for like 6 or 7 years and it has remained odorless, colorless, and still lubricates just fine.

This stuff: https://www.hobbylobby.com/Home-Decor-F ... LTuZ9s99dA

Just out of curiosity, is there a “best before” or manufacturing date on the bottle? There was some of that at a local grocery store and I want to say I remember seeing a date of some kind on the bottle. Would it matter? Not really sure.

I remembered this thread and checked this the other night. I could not find a manufacture date anywhere on the bottle, but the copyright on the back label was 2015, so it was likely sometime around there that I bought it. Took a big whiff and it still smells like regular oil, works just fine.

[acemorgan]

In the 1970s, I bought a single-lens-reflex camera, and became a photography nerd/dilettante. One of the best pieces of advice I learned was, "Don't be afraid to spend film; it's the cheapest thing in your equipment inventory."

I think of that when I drench my pistons with oil. Use plenty, use often.

I got some bad advice back in the 60s when I was playing cornet: use two drops or less per piston, and then add spit to spread the oil around. I think of that when I drench my pistons, too.

[peterbas]

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