"We don't repair *that* brand"

[bloke]

It was a brand that WWBW used to sell as their cheapest line

Which is why buying the cheapest instruments is counter productive in the long run.

No it's not. It's about that music store - via their stupid policy - being a bunch of a holes. All he wanted was to have the bell straightened out.

The overwhelming majority of what is sold in the United States is now made in China, and to be prissy about not repairing someone else's Chinese stuff is really ridiculous. There's a place that acts like that around here, and I wouldn't take a forty-year-old Bundy trombone there.

What's really dumb is to be prissy about not fixing someone's else brand of Jimbo, but only fixing the stores brand of Jimbo.

Even with recognizable brand names, you can forget about being able to obtain quite a few of their parts easily "since -----". More and more, we (here) are sprinting towards third-worldism, and anyone who repairs anything is going to have to learn how to be more like a Cuban automobile repairman... but just to make a point: When most any repair shop or music store calls a manufacturer and asks to buy parts, that manufacturer will sell them parts if they have them... so whenever some jerky music store is acting like that, they are - again - just being a holes.

The best way too react to that sort of nonsense is to just say out loud, "Oh okay...sorry: I should have taken this to a real repair shop."

[shawnv]

It's been my experience that a repad (which should include a cleaning, new pads, and new corks and in the case of wood oiling the body) and a new case is the general recommendation for instruments with pad bugs and it's what I've seen done with used instruments that were purchased for rental stock. It might seem like overkill but as far as I'm aware it's the only way to 100% guarantee that you won't lose any more pads to the bugs or that they'll spread to other instruments or carpet. I've heard of other treatments like putting it in a freezer for a few days, or "fumigating" the case, but I've never known anyone who has personally done that. $381 for all that seems low for my area but may be on point for yours. All that being said you usually end up with pad bugs because it's been in storage for a while which usually means a COA (Clean, Oil, and Adjust) at a bare minimum. Again, this is all just my own experience and far from gospel.

As for whether it's worthwhile to get it fixed or to buy a used clarinet that's a very individual question. From a purely fiscal standpoint it sounds like the value and quality of the clarinet would have justified spending the money to get it fixed, however, it's on the family to decide whether that's the right bet for them based on what they can afford, whether they expect their kid to follow through with band, and how well they expect their kid (or the other kids in the band) to treat the instrument. If it were my kid I certainly wouldn't be giving them a wood body or intermediate anything unless they were a serious student. Also worth mentioning, at least at the shop I work at, the estimates given are only the shops recommendations. Customers are free to authorize or decline whatever work they want. The only caveat there is we don't guarantee the repair after it leaves the shop. We do our best and play test it, have them play it and send them out. Anything afterwards is out of our hands.

[BRS]

.

[UncleBeer]

Regarding parts, I’m not so sure makers will sell to all shops. Some now want you to be a dealer of some volume or else you get the long arm.

Looking at you, Yamaha.

[Rick Denney]

This has been mentioned before, but using the service department as a referral service for new sales is in my mind deceptive. Either it's a service department or not.

And this has also been mentioned: Just tell the freaking truth. If you don't want to work on something because you don't enjoy dealing with the cheapness of it, then one wonders what business you are in. But if you feel there is too much risk because of the way it's made, then just say so. "Here's the deal with Brand Xi: If I get into it and need a part, I won't be able to get it, and I'll have to make that part instead or adapt it from something in the junk box, unless it's an A or a B, which we don't make here. But making stuff is really expensive and that could turn an hour into four days, and my rate is $xxx an hour. The best I might be able to do is call you and tell you that I need to make a part and here's what it will cost, and then you'll have to make a decision. The time I spend doing what I did to that point and then buttoning it back up you'll need to cover either way. That's the risk. Do you have a maximum budget?"

If you are so backed up that you can be choosy, then say that. "I'm really backed up these days and the time I'd need for this work will make it really difficult to keep from getting more behind, so I need to refer you to someone else."

If you are not sure you can fix something at all, say that. "This repair may be beyond what we normally do, and you need to be aware of that." I've never, ever thought less of a repair guy who said that. Repair guys are so concerned they will be seen as knowing less than everything, which is exactly the attitude that turns people off.

You can also have a real conversation about money. "Here's what I can do--I can get this in basic playing condition, assuming none of the parts are broken beyond repair, for $xx. I can touch up these appearance issues for $yy, and I can polish and lacquer beyond that for $zz."

But the best approach in my view is, "What do you hope to accomplish with this repair?" And then negotiate the scope of work and the price the way professionals do in most other fields. Some repair guys will only do full restorations, and asking them to do a quickie play-level repair may be hiring a cat to do a dog's job. A little due diligence should reveal that. The guys that are good at full restorations done well are rare, and their time is limited, so I can understand why they would decline quickie play-level repairs.

Also, we all recognize that working pros will get usually service amateurs will not get, but I suspect that's usually more based on the relationship with the repair guy than the status of the customer. Pros (or their organizations) often develop long-standing relationships with repair techs, and occasionally those are memorialized in contracts. Schools likewise.

[bloke]

There's a lot about a lot of new instruments that's crappy, including domestic-made and band director default brand ones. I just sent off a pair of consecutively numbered #1 short action pistons - which were oval at the top - for rebuilding. The instruments were bought new this year . You could tell me that those pistons were dropped by students, but I could also tell you what the manufacturer did - prior to sale - to try to make them go up and down. There are dumb routines I have to go through with super-expensive Asian-made marching instruments that I just never have to do with older domestic-made marching instruments.

I have told people on this discussion site that - if they buy a (particular) instrument that is shown here for sale - and they live somewhere near me, that I'd be willing to work on it, but that's usually been because it looked interesting to me. I don't really advertise for work, but I really try to not turn down work. I hope no one misinterprets the stuff that I post in the repair form as advertising. People seem to really like to look at crap like that, so I take a picture or two. I just don't have time to make movies or take a bunch of before and after pictures, but if I think about it I might snap one or two during pictures or maybe one ready-to-call-the-customer picture. That having been said, don't mistake that last sentence for me not needing work. Everyone needs to work - particularly these days, when all the money that we thought we had is now worth about 40% of what it was previously worth, but I seem to have a pretty good steady stream of things to do, and if I said yes to more people, would be overwhelmed.

My company's Facebook page has - as the background picture - a stack of a baritone sax (I can't remember whether it's a Selmer or some domestic one...??) supported by a tapered piece of wood held in a vise, but there's absolutely nothing on the page about repair work other than that. Further, there's no way that I would ever publish some repair charge list Mostly what we do is repairs, but we are certainly not an "overhaul mill". Everything else on that page is about instruments for sale. When somebody buys a early and particularly crappy Jimbo trombone for 40 bucks at a pawn shop - and they really look like they don't have much money (usually based on if their car is as crappy as mine) and they're trying to get something for their kid to play in beginner band, I can make those slides go up and down ...and I can make their tuning slides move...and I can straighten them back out...so why should I tilt my head back and look down my nose at them (giving them the music store snob routine, etc.) When I can - nearly as easily - spend 45 minutes, charge them $45, and they've got something that their little kid can make a noise with and keep up in class with, until the kid - just as with kids with brand new Chinese-made name brand-beginner trombones that cost 1200 bucks ($100/mo.) - tears it up again? And yes, there are times when such instruments were so torn up that I can only make them work sort of okay. Those are the times when I repair them for nothing, but ask those - for whom I did those favors - to not tell anyone who got their instrument working for them. (ie. "Ol' bloke must be losing his touch", etc.)

"Walmart instruments don't 'hold up'."
They sure as hell won't, if you treat them like that.

Yeah.. pad bugs. I either sell someone a clean used or really cheap molded Chinese case, or just hand them their instrument and their case separately and let them decide what to do. Sometimes, they might even ask me if I have a nicer new case to sell them. Sure. When someone has a particularly nice case and their instrument had bad bugs, those cases are worth cleaning out. For those people, I might give them an unsellable but functional clarinet case - that has no bugs in it - to use for a while until they are sure that they're really nice case is free of bugs and larvae. Really old clarinets that haven't been played in a long time that were eaten up with pad bugs ... there's usually nothing alive in either those instruments or those cases.

[bone-a-phone]

We have 3 shops in this area. Had 3 shops. One constantly lectured me - a middle aged guy who has been around instruments for decades and understands how things work. They constantly lectured me and lied to my face. I would ask them to do something specific, and they would completely ignore what I asked them to do, and just do (and charge) whatever they wanted. Sometimes I get custom work done - not just base level make-it-play sort of repairs. Things don't always look like factory spec when I'm done. I generally take them pro-level horns, not student horns, not chinese horns.

Now we have 2 shops in this area. They take 6 months to do 4 hours of work, but they don't lecture me, and they don't lie to my face.

[bloke]

A bass trombone has been sitting around here for well over a month. I did the easy part of a conversion thing and have just been letting it sit. That having been said, it is sitting out where I can see it. When I'm working on autopilot type of work, I'm thinking about what I'm going to be doing on the more difficult part. I'm pretty sure that I know exactly what I'm going to do but every once in awhile I come up with an even better idea on something. I don't think they need it back until mid-January. I'm pretty sure I'll have it done.
I'm charging a lot, but I'm also doing a lot. That instrument needs a whole bunch more than the conversion thing. Just like you, they originally brought it in for only that, but I showed them that they would have a converted instrument that was all beat up with a bad slide. (This is not an instrument that they themselves play or will be playing.) Of course I didn't add those things to the list until they approved of them.

There's another custom one-off instrument that is brand new that was brought in here recently. It's made in Vienna. One of the slide tubes is so short and triple layer - in order to accommodate a brace, and with the top layer rubbing unnecessarily on the actual slide layer, that I explained to the instrument's owner that the tube needs to be longer in order for a trigger to work reliably, and at that top layer of tubing needs to not be touching the second layer. Further, I suggested to them that - since the manufacturer is known for making main slide triggers on their instruments - that having a factory made trigger would probably increase the value of the instrument. (We all make our things in our own styles.) This person is an amazing player, but probably has limited years left in their life for specific reasons, so the idea of their spouse selling off their equipment is part of reality. They decided that later on this year they're going to go to Vienna and have the changes made that I suggested... so even though I could have done all this reconfiguration and made or found all these little slide parts and such, this was one case where it was really better for the maker to do those things, rather than me.



(I believe that same manufacturer made an instrument for them previously based on instructions, and went so far as to engrave it and gold plate it. I suspect that the manufacturer was a bit annoyed with that instrument having been rejected, and this one was sent with no finish and no engraving, and with the instructions to my friend/customer too make sure everything is right before they do all that extra expensive finish work... That was a really good idea, as obviously everything is not right. As one of the open pitches is quite out of tune, a main slide trigger will be absolutely essential.)

[bloke]

A friend/customer wanted me to rig up his E-flat Helicon so it would play in E'flat or C. I sort of drug my feet but I thought back about what he had asked for and realized that he didn't care if the gadgetry that I rigged up looked beautiful and symmetrical and he understood that the slide lengths would all be wrong when he flipped the switch (rotor) and he'd have to frantically reach around and change them, so I just got over that and looked around through my boxes of junk, was surprised that I found some stuff that would work out so well, and just built the thing for him. He was unbelievably happy. I wasn't proud of the work because that's really not what I do and I do things candidly better than that, but it's what he wanted, and he got it.
Basically, I had to get past my own ego about my own standards about how I build things and blah blah blah, and just give my friend/customer what they wanted to have.

[gocsick]

A while ago was given a Henri Levelle Eb sousaphone for free. It was a stencil for some shop made by Osri in the 1950s. It had the thinnest brass I've every seen on a sousaphone, it weighed absolutely nothing. No neck or bits of course.. I thought it would be fun as a gag to play it while riding on a bicycle or while jogging at one of the gigs I play at the start and finish of it local marathon or charity 5k runs to encourage the athletes.

I brought it around to a few shops locally to get a new receiver put on so I could use a King neck and bits I had, plus get the leadpipe cut so it would be approximately in tune with the bigger Bb neck. No one would touch it, either they just said it was trash and to hang it on a wall or wouldn't do anything to it without fixing the other 100 things wrong with it ... to the tune of $$$. I couldn't figure out why.

Finally I drove it out to a really good technician I knew through several other musicians but who never worked on any of my instruments... primarily a high end custom trumpet and horn guy. He also didn't want to touch it at first until we spent some time talking and he got to understand why I wanted it done and more importantly that I knew it was still going to be a dog when he was done. Then he happily did it and even charged me less than what I was expecting to pay. He found a new customer. I bring everything to him now for repair service and cleaning, and with 4 brass musicians in the house it means a fair number of service calls. I am working on getting the high school band director to bring in a good number of other instruments to him.

I learned a lot about how to communicate as a customer from that interaction. I think if I went into one of the earlier ships and could clearly articulate my needs and expectations, they may have taken the job. I can 100% understand why it is frustrating for a tech to deal with a customer without a good understanding of instruments and limited budget, like most parents of school age musicians. I looked at my bill as two hours of a skilled professional's time ... I also had an understanding that you can't polish a turd into diamond. A family may look at that cost as a grocery trip or an electric bill ... and the expectation for that outlay of cash is equivalently greater.

Turns out the horn wasn't completely unplayable either. It had one or two clunker notes but overall it wasn't too bad. Turns out I was too chicken to actually play it while riding a bicycle. I gave it to a talented young lady who played tuba with my son in an honor band. She also joined a brass band and was learning Eb tuba. The band had a horn she could play for rehearsal and performances but she needed something for home to practice on and to get used to reading treble clef parts. She still has it as a goof off instrument and used it to prank her matching band director at a practice by playing her part in the wrong key. Big win as far as I am concerned.

TLDR: I'm a university professor so I like to hear myself talk. It is kind of a pointless anecdote so you can safely skip it and go on with your day.