not a repair post; a damage post

[bloke]

No one needs to see "after" pix...
They would just be boring "it's-fixed-pix".

...but I'm just showing these of a 5/4 Reynolds (military surplus) that I sold to a private school - a while back in - in basically like-new (original) condition (even with the original hard cases).

I got an email from the band director a couple of days ago, and this is (along with the verbal/in-person rhetoric typed below the pix) is what I was handed:

No one knows what happened to this. The student using this instrument opened the case - after the week-long snow closure - and found this tuba in this condition.
He came up to me with his eyes wide open and was absolutely shocked and puzzled. Apparently, no one saw anything.

(It's a private/Christian school, so there's no way that anyone could have born any false witness.)

me...??
I'm very good at making forming a thoughtful/pleasant expression on my face - when people (whether their own nonsense - or someone's else repeated nonsense - are layin' nonsense on my...so y'all might keep that in mind - if/when ever speaking to me in-person.

[York-aholic]

May I ask how one repairs the dents under the braces/posts where they’ve pushed in, without taking everything apart?

[windshieldbug]

That explains what must've happened to those missing Boeing bolts!

[bloke]

May I ask how one repairs the dents under the braces/posts where they’ve pushed in, without taking everything apart?

Might send you a picture of a "during" on those two dents.

[bloke]

also (as one would certainly expect/assume, based on what is seen) the #3 and #4 pistons (were) seized - ie. pressure and warpage on casings...


...so ALL of this mysteriously happened while IN the hard case, and DURING the week of the iced-streets shutdown.

[peterbas]

.

[bloke]

' so sorry to hear that about you nicest of all B-flat versions of piggies, your Miraphone 191.

I just can't believe it all this (Reynolds) stuff happened at once, and that any of it happened during the week they were closed. There's too much damage from too many different angles.

I don't really care as much as it might appear that I might care. It's not my tuba, my tax dollars didn't pay for it, and I'm going to charge what I'm going to charge to fix it. They didn't ask for a quote, but I don't gouge people.

The only thing that might worry me a little bit would be that maybe I wouldn't be able to repair it, but I know that isn't the case.

[2nd tenor]

Stuff happens. The more posts that I read the more convinced I become that young people shouldn’t be provided with large, heavy and expensive tubas; they’re given something that for whatever reasons - there’ll be many - they can’t look after properly. Because they’re easier to care for give then small, lighter and inexpensive top action three valve Eb’s and Bb’s, some will still get damaged but it’ll matter less.

[The Big Ben]

There are accidents and then there is vandalism. Most of what is shown appears to be vandalism. It also appears somebody isn't telling the truth.

[2nd tenor]

There are accidents and then there is vandalism. Most of what is shown appears to be vandalism. It also appears somebody isn't telling the truth.

Yep, true enough. Of course someone could either vandalise or unintentionally damage another student’s instrument. It is what it is, the truth will probably never be known and (IMHO) the best thing to do is to never put particularly expensive instruments at risk - as above provide simple and inexpensive ones.

[UncleBeer]

The more posts that I read the more convinced I become that young people shouldn’t be provided with large, heavy and expensive tubas

That actually makes the case for cheaper, well-playing Chinese instruments. If a band director can buy 3 decent Yamaha 105 copies for the same price Yamaha dealers want for the 'real deal', why wouldn't he? Kids are gonna destroy them at exactly the same rate, and at least he'd have horns to send home with motivated kids who are likely to practice more.

[bloke]

Middle/high schools need King-or-very-King-like - and 1990's-style REAL fiberglass and 1990's-style bracing (great overtone series - plural - and 11/16" bore) 3-valve FIBERGLASS sousaphones for CONCERT and MARCHING use.

For bands whereby the directors really emphasize intonation, (as FRONT-action FOUR valve compensating systems have been devised) an upgrade model should be offered which is THREE-valve COMPENSATING.
> 1-3 would be in tune.
> 1-2-3 would be in tune.
> "low" E-flat, D, and lower (as school band music is chosen mostly in consideration of "grade" and "winning") could be easily and nicely produced with very-easily-accessible "false" tones.

- NO brass bodies
- CERTAINLY NO silver-plated brass
- NO 4-valve (as non-compensating 4-valve "fixes" very little, is far more fragile, and adds tons of weight)
- NO stinky-sounding 3/4 fart-tubas
- NO rotary (too fragile)
- NO "upright" tubas (which get knocked over...over-and-over-and-over)

..."but my school/but my state" - bullsh!t

...but NONE of this is going to happen, and I'm going to continue to sell them what they believe they need.


bloke "the fantasy 11/16" bore 3-valve compensating fiberglass sousaphone:
great sound - indoors-or-outdoors / great tuning / no 'after-ring' / no epic body dents / I can fix cracks and breaks / I can get a huge stack of these repaired and back into circulation - for band camp - quickly / newer glues do really well at fixing cracks and breaks in the plastic bell flares" / schools could choose to splurge, order them with two bells, and this would render them really quite viable for nightly home practice"

[bloke]

May I ask how one repairs the dents under the braces/posts where they’ve pushed in, without taking everything apart?

Mrs. bloke helped me with the only (really) hard part, which was getting the UPPER inside bow off (seven solder joints, PLUS one on the lower inside bow - so a total of eight).

We used skinny steel wire (with finger loops in each end) as well as a c. 3/16" diameter steel hook (which I normally use for hanging up tubas/sousaphones for lacquer, but - this time for pulling/flexing) to detach the brace flanges - one-at-a-time - and then heat the two end ferrules/connectors simultaneously (at that point: with gloves - just in case things got too hot...though they didn't). With both ends simultaneously heated ("torch dance"), the upper bow is now (as seen, below) out of the way.

Once I pulled the slide tubes (now freed, and no longer under pressure) back up where they all belonged, the pistons all work (just fine) again.

I'll probably partially un-solder that bottom rib (epic ball + epic magnet) to smooth out the small side of the bottom bow, but the about 2/3rd of the rest of the job is "sit-down" work.

Depending on how I feel (both of us are working with an annoying-but-not-the-worst goofy obviously-not-covid virus - as we always end up with the same illnesses - for obvious reasons), I can go back out there after dinner and either get all the rest of this done, OR do "however much" I feel like doing.

Is this enough "splainin' " and is this one picture enough?
(Otherwise, this thread will need a "forum-transfer".)




bloke "Were I unethical and a price-gouger, I could (??) go around the tuba a burn a whole bunch of lacquer around a whole bunch of additional solder joints, and double or triple the price of the repair...but there are already plenty of places that charge triple what I plan to charge, and would only fix about a third of what I'm planning on fixing - which is everything."

[York-aholic]

Thanks @bloke. I thought (hoped) there might be some super-secret method to get those two dents out without pulling the bow off.

Oh well, back to your regularly scheduled broadcast…

[bort2.0]

On your end:
Is the repair cheaper if he's telling the truth?
Or more expensive if he's lying?

Oh his end:
Is the repair more expensive if he tells the truth? (Some kid probably dropped it, and I'm stuck with the bill)
Is the repair less expensive if he lies? (Principal, this was vandalism and shouldn't come from our repair budget)

I think that tuba got dropped.
I also think it was _totally_ in perfect shape and NO dents before it was brought in.

[bloke]

I believe it was dropped...and dropped...and dropped...and dropped...and dropped (and - long ago - I believe the 4th stem was busted off).

I ALSO believe that this was ONLY reported to the director when - finally - they busted the main slide apart - so as it (again: finally) would not play.

I suspect you'll agree that this is the only explanation that makes any sense at all.

--------------------------------------------

Humor (not a brag).
I've spoken of the benefits/advantages that I have been gifted from having a remarkably capable (ok: "talented" ) mother who was a commercial artist (with not much more than a ruler and - possibly a protractor (etc.) as tools...99%: her TRAINED (by herself and a bit by others) eye.

When I would draw pictures (as a child) and make frustrated grunts (and from then on, including making "projects" for school, etc...) she would cleverly - in a quiet voice - as if I might allow her to "play" too...
Without realizing it, she taught me how to be able to "see" quite a few things - things which have helped me - enormously - work in the 3D world.
Additionally, my Dad (other than the power tools - until I was 12 or so) gave me free range of his workshop. I could list more things, that helped me "pre-learn", but I've listed most all of them before.

HERE'S WHAT'S REALLY FUNNY:
As I've straightened out most of the serious and most-difficult-to-repair interior damage (as the exterior bow damage is "nursery school" stuff), I'm ALSO finding - just as with @tubaing's big Holton, that Reynolds executed some (for lack of a better word...) bullsh!t when originally assembling this tuba...
the nearly-two-feet-long #3 outside slide tube (which I refer to as the "hinge" tube on a front-action valveset - as it's the place where ALL of the slides at going out the TOP of the valveset and those going out from the BOTTOM of the valveset must perfectly align - and in all sorts of geometric ways.
What Reynolds did - to make everything go together at the factory - was to put a BEND in that outside slide tube.
OK...I took that mess off the instrument, straightened that tube and - of course! - crap didn't "fit".
...so (with stuff that my Mom developed within me via teaching awareness and the ability to "see") I began pulling and tugging UNTIL the (again: bloke-named "hinge"-tube and everything else now lines up as it should...everything parallel/coplanar both ABOVE and BELOW the valveset...
...and (as you might guess) JUST AS WITH @tubaing's big Holton, the tuba is now narrower from front-to-back, the adjustable braces now need to be shortened (YET the slides all still EASILY clear the large bows), and - well - the thing is also going to "look" right besides BEING right.

Am I charging for this? You betcha ...even though I SOLD this tuba to them...BECAUSE it was friggin' ALL WORKING before the tore it all up.

[The Big Ben]

Yay, Mom!

[2nd tenor]

The more posts that I read the more convinced I become that young people shouldn’t be provided with large, heavy and expensive tubas

That actually makes the case for cheaper, well-playing Chinese instruments. If a band director can buy 3 decent Yamaha 105 copies for the same price Yamaha dealers want for the 'real deal', why wouldn't he? Kids are gonna destroy them at exactly the same rate, and at least he'd have horns to send home with motivated kids who are likely to practice more.

It’s just an opinion but to my mind something like that makes more sense than anything larger. Tubas get dropped ‘cause they’re too big, too unwieldily and too heavy for youngsters. I remember shifting a three valve Eb about as a teenager, had to walk it say 1/4 mile plus between bus and school, and at times it was a struggle… hate to think how I’d have coped with a BBb.

Of course Bloke’s suggestion of fibreglass sousaphones is sound and matches local customs. Give the kids instruments that are appropriate to their limited physique and general abilities, but I can’t see any Band Director listening to that ‘cause they don’t pay the bills out of their own pocket and are focused on other stuff.

Would I as an adult play a YBB-105 or similar, yes I would and without hesitation. A section mate of mine is a top class cornet player who doubles on Eb Bass for fun, he can drive a simple three valve non-comp Eb bass with remarkably good output - it’s what you do with what you’ve got that matters. So, if adults can get good - excellent even - music out of simple instruments it is, to my mind, misguided to think that children need complex ones.

[UncleBeer]

How about this? Came through my shop several years ago. A Martin (largely) fiberglass tuba. Sounded OK.

IMG_20221005_104430401_11zon.jpg (160.08 KiB) Viewed 1487 times

[bloke]

That's interesting, but I haven't heard particularly good reports about tuning, and I don't think that would be particularly easy to march with as a sousaphone. I'd like to see schools buying instruments that can't be crushed easily, and that can be played both indoors and outdoors with a big sound, in tune, and with three valves. Thus, the 1990s design King fiberglass sousaphone, except with three compensating pistons.
I'm pretty sure, though, that it's going to be impossible to get people to be sensible/practical about a whole bunch of things ever again.

I sort of disagree with the premise that the reason that tubas get damaged is because they're too heavy for kids and they get dropped. Were we able to time travel, I'm pretty sure that the reason that we didn't drop tubas is because we would have gotten whippings, had privileges taken away for months, been forced to figure out how to pay our parents back for the damage, and very possibly kicked out of band.

I remember when one of our crappiest sousaphones - which was an old Holton fiberglass (serious tuning issues) - was torn up by one of the younger players. Sure, it was an accident, but he was running with it and tripped over a telephone pole's guy wire. He was shunned by the rest of us for a few weeks.