ergonomics and 6/4 piston "York"-style C tubas

[tubaing]

Unlikely that anyone would ever do it, but I've imagined some different possibilities if people were willing to route a section of the leadpipe inside the bell. Call it a shortcut?

[bloke]

"...but wouldn't that affect the sound?"

...asks the guy who owns a Jean Baptiste tuba.

[matt g]

While I imagine one could make some sort of Klein bottle inspired leadpipe/bell contraption, it’s gotta be orders of magnitude easier to just section out the needed length from the bugle.

[bloke]

What you do is to call the section of mouthpipe - that goes inside the bell and back out - the "resonator".

[matt g]

The Midas Touch

[Mary Ann]

I´m using a single shoulder strap slung around my right shoulder to solve the issue Rick Denney is describing.
For this to do any good on my Willson, the top line of that strap crosses from the right shoulder underneath my chin to a pipe on the inner left of the tuba´s body.

That serves two functions:
- NO left hand needed to support the horn in playing position.
- tight strap will serve as a rest for left wrist and provide a pivot point for perfect control over the left hand operating 4th slide. That slide is aligned in a plane on the player´s side of the body.

(Most will use the top bow as a pivot point for their wrists to operate slides on the audience-facing side of the tuba)

That strap is adjusted to work in sitting position only. No standing or marching gigs with a real-33-pound behemoth...

I'd like to see a picture of you with the strap -- I use one with my euphonium and it looks like I'm being strangled but it's the only thing I've found that holds it where I need it to be.

[Doc]

I do NOT like the 45 degree angle of the York CC-style leadpipe, BUT…

I have a tuba stand. Issue is now moot.

HELLO???

[Doc]

That's how I have to hold my JP377. Drives me nuts. Too bad - it's a great horn otherwise.

response to sidebar:

It's built just like all the other great 3+1 comp. E-flats.

I continue to suggest placing those instruments (regardless of maker) up on the left thigh.
Yes, it is angled (bottom bow towards the back - on the left - tracing the fold where the left leg meets the abdomen), but it's remarkably comfortable - and for several sets of tunes.

Have you tried that out?

"Attempting to hold a top-action as if it's a front-action"...nope, and NOPE.

I’m horizontally challenged, and I can hold the JP377. Left knee is the ticket:

IMG_0542.jpeg (118.84 KiB) Viewed 1320 times

But left knee with shelf liner is best:

IMG_0539.jpeg (72.3 KiB) Viewed 1320 times

And a tuba stand works also:

IMG_0537.jpeg (106.11 KiB) Viewed 1320 times

______


Full disclosure:
I am 6’01” with a 36-37” sleeve length, although I still have to reach around a significant midsection.
If I lost that midsection, a 6/4 York CC style tuba might not be so uncomfortable to hold. Then again, the 377 and the 20J are the only tubas I don’t play on a stand.

[York-aholic]

^^^

@Doc that first picture is great. You always looks so relaxed when you play!

[bloke]

That's just how I hold my E-flat 3 + 1 comp. I appreciate the picture demonstration.

It's easy to be grateful that someone is doing such a good job of showing how easy it is to hold and play - specifically - a product that I sell, but really it's sort of like the left-wing // right-wing thing: you're not going to convince anyone - who already believes something - of anything else. When someone believes that it's uncomfortable to hold and play a 3+1 compensating E-flat, you're not going to convince them otherwise. Further, Bill is not just showing everyone that a make and model that I sell is it is comfortable to hold and play, but he's showing that all (nearly completely the same shape) instruments made by others are easy to hold in play.

I do believe in the United States there's a good bit of anti-top action snobbery (just as with American anti-B-flat snobbery), even though we all claim that we are open-minded about everything, etc...
---------
"...but bloke, look how closed-minded you are about the 8-ft bugle French tuba in C with six valves..."

I've already been all over that, have I not? My huge euphonium is basically just a "French tuba" that's built a step lower with a different fully chromatic system (and guess what I did with it today - as a reaction to all the rhetoric that's been generated here? I stuck my Doug Elliott contrabass trombone mouthpiece into it, and went through a bunch of contrabass tuba excerpts on the euphonium. It was actually sort of fun, but it sounded a little bit too much like a French tuba.)

[Rick Denney]

^^^

@Doc that first picture is great. You always looks so relaxed when you play!

It's the beer.

Rick "we'll meet in person some day and I'll buy you one" Denney

[Rick Denney]

What you do is to call the section of mouthpipe - that goes inside the bell and back out - the "resonator".

It would need a fairing over it, like an airfoil, to minimize turbulence. Then, you could call it an anti-turbulence resonator.

If you sell it well enough, people will install just the fairing inside bells that have external mouthpipes. That's when you know the marketing is really working.

Rick "anything to make it that much more difficult to repair" Denney

[Doc]

^^^

@Doc that first picture is great. You always looks so relaxed when you play!

It's the beer.

Rick "we'll meet in person some day and I'll buy you one" Denney

I look forward to that!

Relaxing with Rick. Sounds like the title to a fun blog.

[bloke]

Rick "anything to make it that much more difficult to repair" Denney

I'm wondering if the names Nissan, Chrysler, or BMW have been copyrighted for use with all products, or only automobiles. Perhaps, those names could be recycled as more Asian importers'/retailers' tuba brand names.

Rather than an airfoil, why not a resonator? What about little aluminum fins that vibrate and make interesting metallic noises? Why not tune them to different pitches?

bloke "lemon >> lemonade"

[Doc]

Rather than an airfoil, why not a resonator? What about little aluminum fins that vibrate and make little interesting metallic noises? Why not tune them to different pitches?

Methinks this belongs in the Thread for Bad Ideas.

[bloke]

Perhaps, but - on the other hand - maybe we need a new thread for badass ideas.

[MikeS]

Rather than an airfoil, why not a resonator? What about little aluminum fins that vibrate and make interesting metallic noises? Why not tune them to different pitches?

bloke "lemon >> lemonade"

In this video there is a discussion about trumpets made from aluminum siding scraps (giving me an excuse to share it here). It also has some interesting thoughts on demo rooms at conferences. The whole series of videos Jeff Curnow made for the mythical line of Blackjack mouthpieces is pretty darn funny. I wonder if Bloke knows Darin Kelly, the other guy in this video. He plays with the IRIS Chamber Orchestra in Memphis along with teaching at UPenn and other assorted gigs.

[bloke]

I know Darin...
I haven't seen him in a few years.
Of course, we worked together in the orchestra, but also played some quintet run-outs during orchestra weeks.

[Oedipoes]

That's just how I hold my E-flat 3 + 1 comp. I appreciate the picture demonstration.

It's easy to be grateful that someone is doing such a good job of showing how easy it is to hold and play - specifically - a product that I sell, but really it's sort of like the left-wing // right-wing thing: you're not going to convince anyone - who already believes something - of anything else. When someone believes that it's uncomfortable to hold and play a 3+1 compensating E-flat, you're not going to convince them otherwise. Further, Bill is not just showing everyone that a make and model that I sell is it is comfortable to hold and play, but he's showing that all (nearly completely the same shape) instruments made by others are easy to hold in play.

That looks like the standard way of holding a compensating Eb.. I typically look at it as a big euphonium...
I'm a bit confused that there could be debate about holding these instruments?

Don't get me started on the compensating BBb tubas though... those are an ergonomic nightmare to me!
I can't hold it anyway near comfortable without a stand (I'm 1.75m), I need the bottom bow below seat level for the mouthpiece to be within reach...

[bloke]

That's just how I hold my E-flat 3 + 1 comp. I appreciate the picture demonstration.

It's easy to be grateful that someone is doing such a good job of showing how easy it is to hold and play - specifically - a product that I sell, but really it's sort of like the left-wing // right-wing thing: you're not going to convince anyone - who already believes something - of anything else. When someone believes that it's uncomfortable to hold and play a 3+1 compensating E-flat, you're not going to convince them otherwise. Further, Bill is not just showing everyone that a make and model that I sell is it is comfortable to hold and play, but he's showing that all (nearly completely the same shape) instruments made by others are easy to hold in play.

That looks like the standard way of holding a compensating Eb.. I typically look at it as a big euphonium...
I'm a bit confused that there could be debate about holding these instruments?

Don't get me started on the compensating BBb tubas though... those are an ergonomic nightmare to me!
I can't hold it anyway near comfortable without a stand (I'm 1.75m), I need the bottom bow below seat level for the mouthpiece to be within reach...

They ARE a bit more challenging, admittedly, but
- I can get through a practice session OR a concert with one.
- The MORE time I spend working out on the acres here, the EASIER the B-flat becomes manageable (and realize that the original brass bands were made up of factory workers, miners, etc.)
- With the 24" inch detachable bell (vs. the more original-ish 17" upright bell which I "created") it's a WONDERFUL large-ensemble/outdoor performance/no-shell/no microphones instrument.
- Unlike a sousaphone (well...sousaphones have great false tones, but so does the B-flat top-action comp) a top-action comp. B-flat has "real" valve combinations for all the pitches below the range of the piano keyboard and as high as one can manage to play.