Finale is Dead - You Must Switch to Dorico

[the elephant]

After 35 years they are closing up shop. And here I was, stupidly hoping that they would stop with all the STUPID feature additions and for once… JUST ONCE… focus on fixing some decades-old bugs that have pissed off the professional user base forever.

Nope.

I have used Finale since version 2.5 I still have the install floppies and the inch-thick (and very nice) manual. Finale has always been my "killer app" (that term seriously dates me, here), and it is why I purchased my first computer. That was sometime in 1995 or so.

I have thousands of files that will now become orphaned unless I purchase Dorico and relearn 29 years of basic information, shortcuts, and tricks. NONE of the other programs can do what Finale can do, even Dorico is still half-baked in comparison. But perhaps they will open up its abilities some as they take Finale's place.

Here is info from the future undeployed over at MakeMusic…

Have fun with this. Good luck…

Crap…

[arpthark]

Damn. End of an era. I'm lightning fast with Finale. Been using it since I was a middle schooler and it's really how I learned (on my own) how to write music, arrange stuff, figure out what sounded good, how transpositions work, etc. I was futzing around with Finale Notepad back in 2002 and making my parents listen to the weird little harpischord tunes I was writing.

Still using Finale 2014.5 on my 2013 iMac.

[Mary Ann]

What bothers me the most is the after-the-fact notification of the unavailability. I just got my new Mac online last night and was planning to get the latest version of Finale today. No window of opportunity, and I don't find Musescore to be to my taste. Not only that but even to use the substitute I have to plow through the molasses computer with its kiddy version and convert all the .mus files to a format that is theoretically readable by musescore or Dorico, and musescore does not import them well. Basically screwed due to mismanagement of a good product trying to keep up via bells and whistles instead of just keeping the solid part solid and fixing existing bugs.
Maybe with a Mac Sibelius is what I should get.
We all got an email this morning, everyone registered with Finale. "Finale's finale."

[bloke]

...but the internet - and it's "cloud", programs, and all other stuff are forever...just like all the defunct free-then-not-free photo-storage sites which shut down.

...so you guys are upset...
Explain.
The program surely has been around long enough so as most all quirks have been fixed and most all nice-to-haves have been added.
The program is in your own computer (yes?).
You have a copy of the last version of the program on a c.d. or zip drive or hard drive (yes?).
Do you not store your own arrangements and compositions on your own hard drives?
Are they not converted - or convertible - to pdf's?
(For someone who still uses a pencil and staff paper, but doesn't do much arranging anymore, and who has never been a composer) What's the deal?

me...??
I'm disappointed about other sheet music stuff...
- nothing is 11x14 anymore
- nothing is actually printed, and everything is photocopied (not as easily read by eyes - whether young/strong eyes or old/tired eyes)...and - if there actually are 11x14 tablets, now, they're rare, they're surely crazy-expensive, and (me and my vision?) the "backlit" thing just doesn't cut it.

[the elephant]

My Army band previewed and beta-tested Finale 0.9 in 1987. I was the Assistant Music Librarian so I was the victim. I had been using this terrible program made for use with dot matrix printers called Encore, and Finale - in the nascent version I was testing - was head and shoulders above Encore or the other notation program we had. (I can't remember the name.)

I did not use Finale while at U. of North Texas as I could not afford a computer. I bought my first Mac (a five-year-old SE/30) in 1994 and pirated a copy of Finale from the MSO 2nd trumpeter, who also arranges for our quintet. He said something like, "Here. Try this. It is much better than writing stuff out by hand." I was pretty happy as I knew how to use the program already. That was version 2.5.0 and I have used every version since, up to v27.4.1 which is on my computer right now.

I will miss this application like a child. I have struggled and cussed over this massively powerful program for 25 years and have mastered many aspects of it - finally. I am super fast with it, using ONLY Simple Entry. I still - after essentially 35 years - have never used a keyboard to enter notes on the page, still doggedly using the computer and a mouse. When you can enter notes almost as quickly as with a keyboard why bother learning everything over? So I am a bona fide Simple Entry guru.

This program turned a growing interest in arranging into one of the few passions in my life, and at 60 years of age, I do not imagine I will ever become so comfortable with Dorico as I am with Finale. I will never be "good" and fluid in that program.

What a shame.

This is the very last version of this program — ever — after three and a half decades. Truly the end of an era…



I am sad.

[bloke]

Y'all try switchin' to B-flat.

[the elephant]

Joe, our files will no longer work after about a year. You won't be able to open them, according to a phone call I made earlier today. And you would have to have a special, frozen-in-time computer to maintain the OS that can understand Finale and open it.

Every Finale user will have to pony up between $150 to $600 to buy Dorico to salvage everything. In my case, I have over 3,500 files that have to be manually converted in order to use them. Conversion is not automatic, either. It is the process of translating the old file into the new format, then you have to reposition every damned expression, text block, respace all the notes… everything. Otherwise, your hyper-carefully crafted file that took dozens of hours to polish will look like high school work that NO ONE will pay for.

And to do this you have to completely relearn how to engrave using this new program where even the most basic note entry is achieved in a different manner.

And NO they did NOT fix the bugs. There are 35-year-old bugs that have never been addressed as "adequate workarounds have been developed" — so there are landmines everywhere for new users who have to become active on the web to learn all this undocumented stuff. Good companies that shutter usually release one last version to fix as many of the bugs as possible, leaving a legacy version for future users of ancient computers. But hey, since you won't be able to use those files why bother? They are dumping their customers and walking away. This is the very worst type of profiteering. MM has always been a profit-oriented company rather than a customer-service-oriented one, so I have seen this coming since 2004. I am frankly amazed it survived this long. Unfortunately, when you can keep updating the application to work with the newest OS for your computer, you tend to forget this, so you invest more and more years of your life mastering the arcane vagaries and secrets of the program so that you become dependent on it for part (or all) of your income. This is part of my business. It is not some damned toy.

Coda Software was a great company, that only issued updates when flaws had been fixed or important functionality was added. Then Net4Music bought them out and continued the great work, but customer service started to slip. And some modern (arcane) security was added so you could not "poach" the program, which was a good thing, but it introduced some bugs. Then Net4Music was bought out by a group of pure profiteers who renamed the company to MakeMusic, and who had zero interest in Finale's professional user base that helped build the program into the product that MM bought, and who aggressively promoted the application for them for free, which started the long downhill slide.

MM moved to an annual upgrade cycle and you had to pay for them - a lot, in many cases - and they released a lot of stuff ginned up and nicely baked halfway simply to meet their self-imposed deadline. Many software companies did this and they are largely gone now. Even the behemoth Apple has learned to not do that. MM also finally learned to not update on a regular schedule, so the filler updates (always riddled with bugs, requiring several minor updates to make them work correctly) finally stopped. The also stopped issuing updates tied to a specific year. They finally returned to updating when needed, using version numbers. (After 35 years Finale is up to version 27.)

MM showed this to be the eventual outcome many years ago when — due to all the bug fix requests from the professional user base — they decided that the problems could be made to go away by shutting down the Finale Forum that the techs read and responded to on a daily basis. They killed that off to stop people from complaining about unfixed issues.

Great. Solid business move, boys. If you can't make your core user base happy, just disconnect your phone and bury your head in the sand.

This is the industry standard application for engravers, and I make a sizable chunk of my money as an engraver. At the age of 60, I will have to relearn decades of information and workflow. This is an unmitigated disaster. It is very uncool of you to try to minimize issues that others are having because they do not affect you personally.

This is a greed-based decision. On the phone today, I was told that MM, having painted themselves into a corner (essentially screwing up Finale) viewed Dorico as an easy way out. The execs decided to dump their financial interest in Finale, invest in Dorico, and screw the users. I guaran-damn-tee they will ruin Dorico, too, given enough time.

Situationally, this is similar to the UK's decision to shut down the entire coal mining industry and switch over to nuclear power. It had *nothing* to do with being green. It had everything to do with the mine owners deciding that nuclear power was the cheaper long-term solution since coal was becoming too expensive to produce due to air quality legislation. It was becoming harder to locate and exploit profitably. So they all quietly invested in nuclear power and quietly lobbied for even more stringent laws to make coal more sustainable, then threw up their hands and claimed the meanies in government (funded and directed by them) are making the coal business untenable and — therefore — we have to close all the pits and fire all the miners. So sorry, chaps. Oh, and while this was going on they also quietly divested themselves of all things coal-related, raking in billions as they introduced tens of thousands of hard-working, loyal employees to Unemployment, called "the dole"….

This is MM doing essentially the same thing. It is not that big of a deal to people like you, but it is a disaster to the pocketbooks of people like me. Please do not be so dismissive of other peoples' problems. It is like my telling you how little your house burning down affects me… because it doesn't. So, to be more like Joe, I would need to make little jokes about your house burning down, telling you to just buy another one. Nice.

[Casca Grossa]

Just bought Finale about a year ago to get back into using it.

[Mary Ann]

I found a European vendor who has the software in a box still for sale (if they answer yes to my question.)
I looked into Sibelius and they have their own game they are playing, in which you rent the software and must check in monthly online to keep using it.
Musescore is not anything that a pro would use and is full of stupid bugs.
I know nothing about Dorico and had never heard of it.

Were I in Wade's shoes I would take that computer off line and get the cheapest used one I could find to go online, and just continue as possible with Finale 27. Transfers can be made via USB, it appears. I just got a flash drive that is USB on one end and USB-C on the other, to go between the new Mac and the molasses PC that still has everything on it.

I'm not crazy about learning Dorico either, and Wade is entirely correct about trying to get a Finale file into another format -- basically unless you absolutely HAVE to with anything but the simplest of files, makes you want to sue Finale for just not caring, and make them pay for your time. My time is recreational and Wade's is not.

[bloke]

OK...
...so the software is only partially downloaded in to laptops, and the rest is (was) online and controlled by "Finale", is that correct?

...so the only option is to save everything as pdf's and they are what they are, yes? ...or will they even open without an internet connection to the (no longer existing) "mother program" ?

' too bad there's no "open source" (as with OpenOffice/LibreOffice). I never use Microsoft Word/Office/365 (not even installed, and I've rejected free/pirated copies), because of licensing and (not really the same, but yet related) sorts of issues. Also, I never send OO/LO files to others. I convert them to pdf's and then send them. (I'm not a very sophisticated "computer person" - not at all, but I don't want someone who's even more ignorant than I am to not be able to open a document.)

I feel for you folks.

Valentine radar detectors...
upgrades (in the past) were done for a nominal fee (plus r/t postage).
later: Yours is too old to upgrade - even though the shell hasn't changed, so you'll just have to buy a new one, and no consideration for the fact that you bought one before.

' same sort of "we gotcha" type of thing...

If I relied on something for decades - and then they screwed me like that - I don't believe I'd buy their replacement. Rather I'd go to a competitor.
What's the competitor called...?? (Is it "Sibelius" or am I remembering wrong?)

...but (because I don't particularly trust anyone to hold up their end of the bargain on anything) that's roughly 99.9% of the reason why I've never been interested in any sort of "job".

[russiantuba]

I have a Mid 2012 MacBook Pro. I bought Finale 2012 to do my dissertation as I needed more than what print music could offer score wise. Finale said they supported 2012 when the MAC OS systems went from 32 bit to 64 bit. The first update I had on the computer, thr playback crashed. Finale supports 2012 but wouldn’t fix it. When it went to 64 bit, the files wouldn’t work.

I had to install a new hard drive before the pandemic shutdowns and when downloading the software, the programs didn’t even appear. A bass trombonist friend who was a former Apple Genius Bar employee graciously helped me and got the old OS back via Facebook messenger chats (beyond grateful because this made my computer functional for all the online stuff).

I haven’t upgraded the software because finale 2012 does what I need it to when I need it.

Bloke, as software patches update, the small changes in the code don’t work with the software code. So if you keep your computer and do no updates, it will work. But your browsers and website might not support older systems.

[tokuno]

Interesting news.
Thanks for posting, because I doubt I'd have received the 'official' alert - I'm still using my old Finale 2012; never upgraded, don't know if I ever registered the software - just bought, installed, and carried on.
Bummed to hear; end of era.

[LibraryMark]

(snip) I don't find Musescore to be to my taste.(snip)

Why not? I find it easy to use and it does everything I need and you can't beat the price.

[bloke]

I have a Mid 2012 MacBook Pro. I bought Finale 2012 to do my dissertation as I needed more than what print music could offer score wise. Finale said they supported 2012 when the MAC OS systems went from 32 bit to 64 bit. The first update I had on the computer, thr playback crashed. Finale supports 2012 but wouldn’t fix it. When it went to 64 bit, the files wouldn’t work.

I had to install a new hard drive before the pandemic shutdowns and when downloading the software, the programs didn’t even appear. A bass trombonist friend who was a former Apple Genius Bar employee graciously helped me and got the old OS back via Facebook messenger chats (beyond grateful because this made my computer functional for all the online stuff).

I haven’t upgraded the software because finale 2012 does what I need it to when I need it.

Bloke, as software patches update, the small changes in the code don’t work with the software code. So if you keep your computer and do no updates, it will work. But your browsers and website might not support older systems.

...so an old laptop would run the program, then, and the entire program IS located within each user's laptop/desktop hard drive, then...

[the elephant]

WTF? Finale is 100% on the computer. Publishing houses have used it for decades on printing presses (real ones) that are not Internet-capable devices. Have you ever used it? None of it is online at all.

User authorization numbers will expire in one year and then if your install gets corrupted you cannot ever use it again, because WITHOUT THE APP BEING AUTHORIZED YOU CANNOT PRINT OR SAVE ANYTHING, EVER.

So in one year, all your decades of work become garbage, with no way to save or print. You can open and edit, but printing and saving are kaput. Importation of Finale files into any other application is a spotty, inconsistent experience and you have many, many hours of editing correcting, or reconstruction before your file resembles how it looked when it was last saved. Dorico's implementation of MUSX file importing is very spotty right now, so I sincerely hope that they polish that crap up like genuine Tiffany cufflinks right fast. or I won't be able to run my small company any longer. I accept pen-and-ink scores and Finale files and produce finished, publishable files for a large fee. It is over ten grand of my income each year. If I cannot save that work am out of business. Having to learn a new program now is a disaster as my busy season is during the summer, and my ability to produce sellable documents will end in August.

Not to mention that my hobby of arranging will end up going bye-bye as well, at least for some time as I learn Dorico.

I cannot believe this company pulled a dick move like canceling all our licenses to authorize our old copies. That seems like a means to force us to purchase the "deeply discounted" Dorico. Isn't that illegal? I have spent thousands of dollars keeping my computer, OS, and Finale itself up-to-date and compatible with one another over the decades.

[martyneilan]

Anybody remember "Will Harvey's Music Construction Set"?
It came out in the early 80's and I remember using it to transcribe a Bari Sax part on my Atari 800 because my 6th or 7th grade self couldn't wrap my head around changing the clef, key signature, and accidentals.

[Mary Ann]

(snip) I don't find Musescore to be to my taste.(snip)

Why not? I find it easy to use and it does everything I need and you can't beat the price.

I have only brought in ex-finale files and find it an incredible hassle especially getting a layout that looks sane. These are files I'm re-instrumenting for different instruments than the ones I originally wrote them for. I can't imagine trying to bring in, for example, a full band piece to turn it into a brass band piece.

I'm with Wade on this; they did what they did, how they did it, purely and completely for financial reasons including some kind of kickback for all the Finale users who go and buy Dorico. Probably it is legal but it is also the "New (not so new?) American Way." Money at all costs and nothing else matters, especially the people it affects. I'm inconvenienced and Wade is up a creek unless he takes his computer offline and it continues to run forever without needing any upgrades or fixes.

[gocsick]

Not a Finale user so this might be a dumb question... Can't Finale export a . MusicXML, .mxl, file? It should be really easy to import into Musescore or another program.

[bloke]

I'm not trying to argue with anyone. Are there ways to copy the program on to other hard storage sources to have backup copies?

[donn]

' too bad there's no "open source" (as with OpenOffice/LibreOffice).

There is LilyPond. I have the impression that's sophisticated enough to qualifiy as "engraving", but of course the learning curve is intimidating, and I don't know if anyone ever gets real fast at it. I fiddled around with it some, on a much less ambitious level just out of curiosity. I might have kept up with it, but circumstances. I think it may depend a great deal on how your brain works, it isn't for everyone.

Because LilyPond is open source, it provides a look at what's going on under the hood. There are three computer programming languages involved: 600,000 lines of C++, 140,000 lines of Scheme and 120,000 lines of Python. This has something to do with why these applications' lives come to an end. The revenue doesn't support the hours of skilled labor they require. Even if it's pretty well engineered to start with, the accumulation of features and fixes over the years, while trying to maintain backward compatibility, naturally tend to make it a dusty horror inside. People who understood it retire, etc.

There's another kind of open -ism involved here, too. Like your OpenOffice has to be able to take apart "Word" documents, anyone who would try to bring OpenFinale would have to grapple with Finale's application data files, and I assume the format thereof is not public knowledge. In some contrast to LaTex, and LilyPond, where the text document is both data file and user interface. Neither is a sold guarantee of immortality, but the proprietary files are more obviously a dead end in that respect.

I see some references to a LilyPond accessory that might partially translate some version of Finale files (maybe .musx, don't know that for sure.) This isn't likely to make anyone real happy at this point, but as the circumstances have changed, it could be something of greater interest now. Maybe the nice people at MakeMusic are getting ready to publish the data format (ha ha.) Having the format document is the first step, then someone has to figure out how to translate that properly into an open format, if that's even possible.

I use Lime. The developers are, as far as I know, some academics, so it's a relatively low budget enterprise, and when Apple dropped support for 32 bit applications, it stopped working on MacOS and it looks like they're never going to do anything about it. So my Macbook is running a 7 year old OS, but that's no big problem. (It's likely batttery problems that will be the end of MacOS for me.) They have a paid user key, but it's good forever, transferable to whatever computer you're using, etc. But some day, it will end, and my stuff will have to come out of those Lime files. Luckily it's trivial enough that little will be lost in translation to XML or whatever. I actually tried Dorico. Bleah. I'm sure there were some things I failed to understand, but I have a vague memory of incredible missing functionality, like it had all the dancing babies and stuff but couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time. Maybe it's just that learning curve.