Gabriel Capet Eb Tuba

[eeflattuba]

I see that The Mighty Quinn Brass And Winds store has a Wilson model 3400S-FA5 Gabriel Capet Compact Eb tuba for sale at his store for 9999 US dollars.Has anyone played this model?

[TxTx]

I am going to be up that way in a couple-three weeks, hopefully I can drop by and check it out.

[TxTx]

I am going to be up that way in a couple-three weeks, hopefully I can drop by and check it out. Thanks for sharing that.

[TxTx]

Curious - I see this horn on Willson’s website and at Mighty Quinn but nowhere else. I do see a “compact” 3400 at Dillon and find some mentions of it on the forums. Same or similar horn? Or totally different?

[TxTx]

So I went and tried it last Friday along with a couple of Bbs they had. I liked it quite a bit - way better intonation than what I have been playing (my 1928 Martin Intermediate Eb) and seemed to really sing in its high register. Also seemed pretty strong in its lower range, which I’ve also struggled with on my current horn. More importantly, my wife, who patiently listens to most all my live performances on tuba, liked it quite a bit, and thought it would be a good fit for the crazy world music group I play with. She liked how “present” it sounded and some of the nuances I could bring out in music I play pretty regularly. So I ended up buying it.

Goods: Easy for me to play, liked the ergonomics, and felt like home, maybe because the bore and size and general arrangement are kindof similar to my current horn (both front action piston, bore .690 vs .708 and bigger for Willson). Some piston horns I’ve tried recently have made some of my finger joints hurt after a bit (I am no spring chicken) and I didn’t have that here; hopefully I wasn’t just having a good day. Other than demoing instruments I haven’t played a four valve horn in nearly forty years, but my ears pretty quickly told me when I needed to use the forth and fifth valves, so think it is a little harder to just lip it into tune like I probably do with my 3 valve. It is really compact- tightly wrapped and short in stature - so should work well in my current group of multi-instrumentalists, where we all compete for floor space.

Cons: definitely seems heavy for its size. It weighed in at 20.4 lbs on their scale. I was looking for something lighter but sometimes life surprises us. I’m reminded of the joke which has the punchline “I wanted a back rub.”

Interesting: The receiver pretty much completely swallowed the shanks of the two mouthpieces I brought - Miraphone TU-23 and Conn Helleberg - from some research seems the Wilson’s usually have larger receivers so may be totally normal, though I tended a little sharp on it overall. May just be me as I’ve had this on other horns.

Horn seemed to like the Helleberg a little better. The TU-23 sounded a little “airy” which I’ve noticed on some other horns I have tried. The TU-23 is what I usually play on.

The horn was one that Eastman brought to NAMM as a demo, so some of y’all have probably played it. Anyway it will be on its way to Texas in a few days.

Fun stuff.

Eric

[aarongsmith]

I had a silver one in the shop for a little bit from the Eastman display at NERTEC. I did not want it due to being a little heavy on tubas for our store so Baltimore Brass picked it up.

I really liked it even in comparison to my older 3400-FA5 Erickson. It has very similar playing characteristics, but the more compact size reflects in the sound. It has a more direct, typical bass tuba sound, but still has some of the Willson Eb heft. The larger Erickson Eb has a little darker, more overtone rich sound. I don't think that it will struggle in any setting regardless because after all it still projects like crazy.

Ergonomics were fantastic for me even though the squatty tubas usually don't work for my longer torso. That one sat atop my right leg and the receiver was right at my mouth. Also, I found the left hand access to tuning slides to be really comfortable since you don't have to stretch over the top bow.

As far as weight goes, if you don't like heavy tubas I would recommend not shopping Willson. They are all pretty darn heavy.

All that to say if I had to replace my current Eb, a Capet would be in the running along with a Norwegian Star. I think I would want something at least more compact in hindsight, but if weight was a concern I would go with a Norwegian Star.

An important side note, they do not currently include a case or bag with the tuba, but I believe Eastman and Willson are working on a solution.

[Sousaswag]

My favorite Eb tuba. If I had the need, I’d snatch one up.

But, I’ve already got a Willson F tuba that fills the role of what this one would do.

[TxTx]

All that to say if I had to replace my current Eb, a Capet would be in the running along with a Norwegian Star. I think I would want something at least more compact in hindsight, but if weight was a concern I would go with a Norwegian Star.

The Norwegian Star was one of my leading candidates. I’ve played four of them, two at one place, and some I definitely liked better than others. Only two of those were for sale otherwise I’d probably have had one already. I definitely have the impression of more “oomph” down low with this Willson than some of the Norwegian Stars. But it’s the only Willson tuba I have ever played.

Definitely heavier than the NS but only around a pound, so hopefully it will help me stay young(er).

Eric

[aarongsmith]

Congrats on the new horn!

[TxTx]

I’m having fun getting to know the horn. It’s been a learning experience:

The receiver is European shank, and all the mouthpieces I have are generally smaller. But I got an adapter from Thomann and what I have works for now. Mainly playing with a Miraphone TU-23.

It definitely sits sharp, and takes almost all of the main tuning slide to get it to pitch - like 48mm of a total of 62. Having the mouthpiece adapter adds a little length, though not enough to make a real difference. I took the horn over to @LeMark’s who confirmed the sharpness wasn’t just me. I also got to try his Norwegian Star, and between the two I think I got the right horn for me.

I got @Unclebeer to check the horn with his BIAS tool, which confirmed the sharpness and indicated a possible leak around 100mm down the instrument - right in the middle of the main tuning slide. Everything else looked good. The inlet end of the slide seemed a little loose so he expanded it a little. I had noticed that it would leak if I pulled it out very far, so that should take care of that for now. I will probably get him to lengthen the main slide when I can do without the horn for a few days.

It’s taking a little bit to figure out where condensate collects and how best to clear it. The horn has three spit valves - main & slides 3 & 4 - but it takes tilting the horn sideways and down a little to get the water there from the other loops in the 3 & 4 circuits. The horn also collects water in the 1 & 2 circuits even though they point up - so it takes a puff of air to get those clear. Weird.

I’ve also played with the valve springs some - the original springs are conical and pretty stiff, so I borrowed some from another horn to lighten them up. Seems ok so far. I hadn’t played more than a three valve horn for any length of time in more than 30 years, so my pinkie’s having to get used to doing some work.

Anyway I’m digging it despite the tuning trouble, particularly since that is pretty easily resolved. I am really fortunate to have folks like @LeMark and @UncleBeer locally to call on for help. Thanks to you both!

Really looking forward to the first rehearsal with my world music group Monday. First performance with it is two weeks from tomorrow. Gotta go work that pinkie!

Eric

[MiBrassFS]

I wanna hang out with Uncle Beer and his magic machine! Sounds very nteresting.

I wonder if Willson has an A440 slide they could provide. Sounds like you did your due diligence with regard to identifying the issue.

[Sousaswag]

Also, as far as springs go…

I had a 3200 piston F for some time with what I assume are the same springs. Really stiff.

Get you some Yamaha springs. I put them in all my piston tubas and they make a world of difference for me.

Congratulations on the horn. A rare bird, indeed, and a real winner. Show us some pics!

[TxTx]

I wonder if Willson has an A440 slide they could provide. Sounds like you did your due diligence with regard to identifying the issue.

I wrote Willson and asked if they either had or could make a longer slide. After a couple of days I got a reply from Willi Kurath himself, saying it was possible. I’ve since asked how long it would take and what that would cost, but have yet to hear back. I may do that, but I know if I have it done locally I know it will fit and work perfectly.

@UncleBeer’s machine is way cool. I am an electrical engineer by profession and have worked some structural frequency response tests, so I totally get how it works. But it is really interesting seeing it in practice, especially interpretation of the data from it. The BIAS software came up in another thread, so I looked it up on line. Purchase includes training and I can see why.

I haven’t taken any pictures of the horn, but there’s an ad for it on Reverb that is still up:

https://reverb.com/item/83562991-willso ... 1-gorgeous

Eric

[UncleBeer]

Get you some Yamaha springs. I put them in all my piston tubas and they make a world of difference for me.

A quick word about those Yamaha plastic-sheathed springs. The plastic eventually shreds off the springs and jams up your valves. Here's a spring I replaced for a well-known player whose valves were misbehaving.

IMG_20240826_092910977 (1)_11zon.jpg (197.75 KiB) Viewed 592 times

[Sousaswag]

Interesting. I’ve never had that happen. I’ll keep a closer eye on them.

[LeMark]

I would recommend the lightweight Springs from Steven Mead