Ontario (FB): Bach Cimbasso $3,500 CAD (~$2,500 USD)

[arpthark]

Not sure the link will work, as it's a private group, but it's posted on the "Euphonium - Tuba - Low Brass Marketplace" on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/19v4LGreLt/

[York-aholic]

I have read that those existed, just never seen one before.

[bloke]

oh...That's absolutely genuine...I believe that one is particular is the "Mercury" line Bach cimbasso, whereas only seventy or eighty of the Stradivarius ones (all: in C, of course) were made.

The telltale sign that it's a Bach "Mercury" is the use of that Holton sousaphone neck in its - uh - construction.
Frank Holton and Vincent Bach were huge buddies, and they were always swapping parts back-and-forth...mostly on craigslist.

[Finetales]

Indiana University has one of these.

It is the single worst brass instrument I have ever played. Be warned

[bloke]

...and some peeps actually believe them to be Bach-made.

[York-aholic]

...and some peeps actually believe them to be Bach-made.

I saw it on the internet. It must be true.

[arpthark]

Who made em?

[MiBrassFS]

Who made em?

Yeah, what arpie said. What’s the lowdown on these? Sounds like there’s at least a few of them around.

There’s even apparently Chinese copies. (If I was an emoji user, this is where I’d insert some sort of sarcastic laughing face. But, I’m not. So, I won’t.)

[bloke]

What I see is some old skinny early 20th century baritone horn, a Holton sousaphone neck, and a set of some sort of tuba valves and tubing.

...so am I fooling myself, or am I seeing what I think I'm seeing?

[MiBrassFS]

I wonder… if Bach’s guy named “Peppy” put these together by request. “Peppy” (or “Pepe,” I’ve seen it both ways) was John Pettinato who worked in the Bach factory in Mt Vernon, NY and later had his own repair shop in NYC. He built the Mt. Vernon trombones for Bach.

https://www.brasshistory.net/Pettinato%20History.pdf

“Pure conjecture.”

[bloke]

At the risk of triggering an owner of a (generic) one into a defensive position, I've never played one of the "marching baritone" cimbassos that I
- liked
- personally judged to have a trombone-family type of resonance.

A friend of mine (talented frankentuber), tore his "marching baritone cimbasso back apart, located an old/obsolete marching-something-or-other (ELONGATED LARGE TROMBONE-SHAPED BELL) instrument on eBay, RE-built his, and ended up with a successful instrument. (My friend's former marching-baritone version even featured epic response problems...which disappeared after redesign.)


repeated bragging, but 99% boasting on (not any "design insights", but) my LUCK:
I've never played any cimbasso (including any of the $2X,XXX ones) that plays anywhere as close to as well as mine (and no main slide trigger nor #1 slide trigger nor #5 slide necessary...It DOES feature a #2 slide trigger, as it's only a 5-valve instrument), which defines that it's going to be difficult for most any cimbasso to impress me.

[MiBrassFS]

I owned a marching baritone based cimbasso briefly. After I purchased it, I rebuilt about 50% of it replacing a bunch of parts (making what I felt were better choices) and disassembled and reassembled it to clean up solder work and trim edges/fit and finish. I used it for its intended purpose (a string of weird opera related gigs with a voice professor’s students) and then immediately sold it to a college professor. The original builder was very indignant and offended that I would dare improve upon his work.

Just like a boat, I was glad to buy it and glad to sell it. There are still pictures of it after my rebuild floating around on the internet.

[bloke]

The original builder was very indignant and offended that I would dare improve upon his work.

Up-bump Derangement Syndrome

[Finetales]

Who made em?

I've heard that they were made for Bach on the cheap by an Italian maker. No idea how I would get confirmation of that, though.

[MiBrassFS]

Seems to me that most/all of the baritone based ones are a bit lacking.

The original builder was very indignant and offended that I would dare improve upon his work.

Up-bump Derangement Syndrome

Well, not sure about the meaning on that one, but some people tend to be in love with their own work (no matter what field is involved). While that’s not a particularly “nice” comment, the person that cobbled that thing together wasn’t “nice” at all. They seem to not understand that once the next owner takes possession of something, it’s theirs to improve as they see fit.

They also then claimed my changes going forward, so they apparently saw the value of those modifications.

In a pinch, it was “good enough” when I was done with it. Then it was gone.

I was just told by a friend that when they tried to borrow/rent it before I owned it, they said the conditions were something like $600 a day and all performance programs had to include the cimbasso assembler’s name. The opera company declined. I can just hear all the elderly patrons in unison, “what in the world is that about?!”

[bloke]

Decades ago before I'd ever stuck any other instruments together, there was a three valve Holton BB340 that would be seen in a pawn shop every once in a while in Memphis. Apparently it had belonged to a student of Arnold Jacobs, and they would pawn it and redeem it over and over. One day it was actually for sale, and I think I paid $80 for it. It was the first instrument I ever cut to C. Before I cut it, it was probably the worst Holton B-flat I had ever played. It had the flattest F at the bottom of the staff and the sharpest F up in the staff of any of them. Believing at that time that something might possibly be able to be done, I've messed and messed around with it and nothing changed. I tried to do a more factory C type of cut than the guy in Wisconsin was doing (to avoid the "hole" at the bottom of the instrument), that didn't help anything. I also didn't have access to parts like we do today and had to use a Conn piston for the added fourth valve. Also, the factory silver plating was so ridiculously thick that it was actually clad on there and - when I put a new finish on it with some new glass bead blasting - the original started coming off the back of the bell in sheets, so it was a pretty weird looking back there. As I recall, the 5th valve thing that I did was pretty good. I was able to play it in tune with Alexander fingerings, but grew pretty tired of it. Others wanted to buy it, and I eventually sold it to one of them. Later, I heard it ended up being taken apart and various things were used for other instruments. I certainly didn't give a crap.

That person's ego about what you report is really something else. If I sensed that someone was that nuts, I don't think I would have communicated with them ever again, once I made a transaction and purchased something from them.

[arpthark]

Speaking of cimbasso rentals, someone local to me was attempting to charge one of my friends something like $800 a week to rent theirs for a local opera thing. I think they said "no thanks."

[bloke]

There's no way that I would loan mine out nor rent it out. It requires some becoming accustomed to the instrument to be able to avoid trashing it or even bumping it against things.

I'm glad to allow people who come here to have repairs done or to buy things play it. I might discourage those who already own one from playing mine, because it would just discourage them.

[MiBrassFS]

The one I bought and sold was publicly available for rent before I owned it briefly. Not sure anyone one ever did. Tough terms to satisfy!

It would be the rare person that I would loan an instrument to, especially these days. Less than I could count on one hand few. I’m not even too interested in letting people try stuff.

[arpthark]

To be clear, I don't fault the renter for asking that price, nor the rentee for politely saying no. I loan out stuff regularly, but nothing too precious or irreplaceable.