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I’ve owned a 6/4 BBb tuba, and I can tell you they don’t really offer more sound out front. Under the bell it sounds massive but once the sound propagates in the hall, all tubas sound massive.

I currently play a 3+1 compensating EEb, and that horn sounds massive in the hall. No need for a big tuba, not to mention standard size horns have a larger tonal palette IMO.

LCTuba89 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:57 am I’ve owned a 6/4 BBb tuba, and I can tell you they don’t really offer more sound out front. Under the bell it sounds massive but once the sound propagates in the hall, all tubas sound massive.

I currently play a 3+1 compensating EEb, and that horn sounds massive in the hall. No need for a big tuba, not to mention standard size horns have a larger tonal palette IMO.

That's why I occasionally link the Organ Symphony last movement video (F tuba).
It's not to "show off" (because it's not as if the tuba part is "hard"; it certainly isn't), but to to show that all lengths of tubas are capable of making a "racket". Further, it makes me chuckle that some people view a B&S "Symphonie" as a (so-called) "4/4" F tuba - when the 4th valve circuit is 21mm bore, and the bell diameter is 16-1/2".

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bloke wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:23 pm ... Further, it makes me chuckle that some people view a B&S "Symphonie" as a (so-called) "4/4" F tuba - when the 4th valve circuit is 21mm bore, and the bell diameter is 16-1/2".

Does anyone now sell new F tubas smaller than a Symphonie?

Bore size, most piston ones and bell size anything under 16 and 1/2 in such as Yamaha 621.

jtm wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:10 pm

bloke wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:23 pm ... Further, it makes me chuckle that some people view a B&S "Symphonie" as a (so-called) "4/4" F tuba - when the 4th valve circuit is 21mm bore, and the bell diameter is 16-1/2".

Does anyone now sell new F tubas smaller than a Symphonie?

Specifically...

Meinl Weston still lists the 182 on its site.

The Miraphone 180 is in between the MW and B&S tubas, and the Firebird (larger valve bore) splits that again. Not sure where the 1281 fits...

I think the few Cerveny models are smaller than B&S as well.

Is the Willson 3200XS model more slender than the B&S tubas?

RIP Kanstul and its model 80S...

On the Chinese side, excluding those weird Zo things, the Wessex British F tuba is smaller, and the Berg and Linz are both in that Firebird size range.

I owned (bought to flip) a rotary Willson F for a short time - which was the larger size one. Both the valve section and the bell interior volume were smaller than a B&S Symphonie. I suspect people were/are under the impression that the Willson instrument is larger, because they like the way that they can blatt in the range below the staff, and associate that with size.

peterbas wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:26 pm Being it a wind band an Eb will be totally buried.
Didn't you call those Eb's "small C tubas with a pretty sound".

I’ve played my EEb 3+1 in a two piece tuba section with the other guy playing a Miraphone 186. We’ve gotten the hand several times and this was in 50+ member wind ensemble rehearsing in a non acoustically treated band hall.

I don’t miss my 6/4 BBb at all.

It's easier to play with a deep bass sound very/extremely loudly on a really large tuba than on a really small one, but most tubas can be played quite loudly.

The one configuration that I've had trouble playing quite as loud as others is those 16-inch to 19-inch bell instruments outfitted with bore sizes that aren't much larger than - or are even smaller than - 17 mm. I would put the York 32-inch tall B-flat/E-flat instruments (with their original valve sections) in this category, as well as Olds/Reynolds/Bach/Conn 7/8ths size B-flats.

Again, I'm not a scientist, but am an observer, and a person with - maybe - a considerable amount of experience.

bloke wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:54 pm It's easier to play with a deep bass sound very/extremely loudly on a really large tuba than on a really small one, but most tubas can be played quite loudly....

Yes, a 6/4 Bb tuba in a band isn't there to make "loud", it's there to make a particular quality of sound and propagation.

And whether a performance space makes a tuba sound big or not depends entirely on the performance space. Give me a hard shell on a proper concert stage, and the 6/4 puts a breadth of sound that adds dimension to a band, particularly if it's a 6/4 tuba that has some color in the sound (which, of course, not all do, even if the players can exploit it). But in a dead high-school auditorium damped to make the school principal's speech clear, and on a stage with no shell, the 6/4 tuba lacks the punch to get out front. I end up blowing my brains out. For that, a big kaiser-style rotary tuba really has more firepower.

Smaller tubas can certainly be loud, but then so can trumpets and trombones.

Rick "it's about tone not volume" Denney

I understand the concept of tone color, which is why I prefer the 4/4 size tubas over the 6/4 horns. In a large lively space, any tuba will sound massive especially if the bell is fairly large and the bore is not too constricting. In dead spaces where the lower overtones get lost, a 6/4 tuba becomes more of a hindrance than a help.

So if I’m going to own one tuba, it’s going to be a 4/4 tuba.

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All of these generalizations ignore the reality of crappy/okay/excellent interpretations/makes/models of various lengths and sizes of tubas.

These super-over-generalizations make me think of an analogy whereby somebody says "I need a minivan, but I had a Dodge minivan that I bought new in 1984 that was a piece of junk, so I'm not going to buy a 2024 Toyota minivan."

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peterbas wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:34 am People not buying a Toyota

You have as much trouble admitting that you're wrong as I used to have. You're probably not as old as I am. Someday, you will probably be more comfortable with it. Pretending to not get an analogy doesn't make anyone look any smarter.

Also, don't confuse my recreational trolling for me not knowing that I'm wrong a lot of the time.

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triggered.

Happy Repentance Day.

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