Are all addictions - by definition - harmful...or are not all harmful...??

[bloke]

warning:
Triggering, controversy, people wandering off into politics, people accusing the topic itself of being political, and post-locking may be possible.

========================================================

I'm seeing postings on social media about people reporting that they are "hurting badly" because they haven't been performing music publicly.

I also know quite a few people who perform music "for a living", but (apparently...??) don't actually make "a living" and - to get by - routinely go on unemployment, each year, during the summer months (so - for those who were not aware of this - the N.E.A. is not-at-all the only federal arts subsidy that exists). Most all of them - I'm quite sure - could find better-paying jobs, and actually make a "living", but they choose to not do so.

I like playing music. At this point, I rarely do it without remuneration being involved...but make those decisions on individual *bases.
I like fixing horns. At this point, I rarely do it without remuneration being involved...but make those decisions on individual bases.
I like selling horns. I probably do better selling new ones than used ones, because my ego demands that - when I sell used ones - they are far better than "good enough".
I'm not keen on teaching music performance (teaching a skill - particularly to an unmotivated student - seems to me to be similar to trying to drive a car from the back seat - while inebriated), but would consider it, if I really needed income and was convinced that I could do it with a positive attitude.

My heart would not hurt (as some express it) were I not able to do any of these things. Quite a few other types of endeavors (which offer remuneration, and of which I am capable) interest me. I know someone who played full-time for decades, but (after the shutdown) abruptly walked away from it, obtained and better-paying job in a completely non-music industry, and sold all of their instruments.

Is music performance an addiction - with some people, and is any addiction healthy ?

If music performance is an addiction (as most all addictions involve the stimulation the production of endorphins in the bloodstream) with some, could an addict post intelligently - and in an unbiased way - in this thread?

______________________________________________
*plural of "basis"

[bort2.0]

It seems to me that addiction is a personality trait, exacerbated by other things. I've known plenty of addicts, recovering and active ... In all sorts of things. And frankly, not sure there was a "bad" person among them. Some really lousy choices... But as people, still "good."

What does seem to happen though is that when people can beat an addiction (for example, alcohol), they replace it with a new addiction, like exercise.

Is exercise an unhealthy addiction? Maybe it could be, but for a late middle age person who didn't care for themselves so much earlier in life, it's far more good than bad.

Performing and playing music as an addiction? It's not bad on its own, but the isolation from other people, time away from family, missing other normal interactions... That's the stuff that makes things go bad. But, it all depends on the situation. When I was out of college, I played in like 4 different groups, 4 nights per week, all year long. It was great, it was my life at the time. I was single ... Married with little kids, even 1 night per week at rehearsal seems unrealistic right now. Addicted to tuba or not ... It's just not happening. Maybe that's why I spend so much time around here.

My wife says that I'm addicted to "busy," and I think she's right. I can stay focused and working on "jobs" until my body just totally gives out and I surrender to sleep. (Example, I was replacing the electric outlets in my house last night between 1am and 3am, because it needs to be done and, well, I was awake).

Anyway... On to another addiction, coffee.

[Shawn]

This can devolve into semantics astonishingly quickly. Watch:

I claim these two things are true to a reasonable mind:
1. Doing anything to extreme excess is harmful. Anything at all.
2. Doing something you enjoy, if it's not negatively affecting the rest of your life in a material way, is not harmful.

But I'm going to need to leave "reasonable mind", "extreme", and "in a material way" as undefined terms.
Undefined as in "we all know what they mean, so we don't need to define them"--an old logician's trick.
Otherwise, we will be chasing our tails all day.

How you choose to define "addiction", then, is up to you.
If you define all addictions as 1., then yes, all addictions are harmful.
If you can define some addictions as 2., then some are not harmful.

[Stryk]

For me, it is something that brings me joy. I could be happy without it, as I am a couple months a year as we travel (sans 2020). But, I feel more complete when I can be part of making music.

[Doc]

I've always described it in a sort simpleton's way:

--- A musician needs (feels compelled) to play, just as a writer needs to write and a painter needs to paint. ---

Is it a bummer when I can't play for money? Definitely. Is it a bummer when I can't play at home? Sure. If my career was thrown a giant curve ball, would that suck horribly? Absolutely (been there, done that). But is it the end of the world? Not at all, and it shouldn't be to anyone else, as there is much more to life than playing music. If, however, this need to play approaches or is an addiction, that's a problem.

If I am not playing much, I usually practice some at home. And when I can't practice or play for fun at home, I get my "fix" through listening, although I wouldn't call any of it an addiction. If, for some, it is truly an addiction versus a natural compulsion (remuneration notwithstanding), then that could be harmful. The level of harm, of course, would depend on the stage of addiction (occasional use, more frequent use, preoccupied with use, dependent on use). If your addiction is such that it hurts you, your family, or others in some way, hurts your finances, and you have to do it at any cost, that's full-blown addiction which is a huge problem. Just being bummed or depressed (not clinically) or "Damn, life sucks right now" doesn't qualify as addiction.

Instead of bona fide addiction, it may be that working/professional musicians are seriously bummed. And understandably so - their livelihood and/or way of life has been altered. And it sucks for amateurs and music lovers also. Having your livelihood and way of life altered, particularly if you really love it, worked your butt off for it, and your identity is completely wrapped up in it, can be a bummer X100. Might even be devastating to some. And it would even be worse if you had no other marketable skills. But the harsh reality is that life goes on, and you need to summon the maturity and guts to adapt, lest you get left behind in an emotional mess. Embrace the suck, reinvent yourself, keep a stiff upper lip, hold the line, charge ahead, do whatcha gotta do, and all that jolly good stuff, right? Mere platitudes? Not hardly. We all know life isn't fair. That's just reality. And musicians aren't the only ones to ever be dealt a crappy hand that they still had to find a way to play. It is what it is. Life ain't an easy game. Play hard. Folding and cashing out is not an option.

And if someone is really and truly on the edge because they cannot live without playing music as they did before, I would encourage them to seek help.

[iiipopes]

According to the ASAM, American Society of Addiction medicine, an addiction is defined:

"Addiction is a treatable, chronic medical disease involving complex interactions among brain circuits, genetics, the environment, and an individual’s life experiences. People with addiction use substances or engage in behaviors that become compulsive and often continue despite harmful consequences. Prevention efforts and treatment approaches for addiction are generally as successful as those for other chronic diseases."

https://www.asam.org/Quality-Science/de ... -addiction

So, with that definition, any addiction is harmful. In modern parlance, the word "addiction" is associated with substance abuse, but this is not always the case. Compare the eleven criteria for an addiction diagnosis of DSM 5, which focus on the effects of substance abuse, and defines the other compulsive behaviours which we may in layman's terms call an addiction, but are classified otherwise.

The Integrative Life Center discusses the difference in these two categories of behaviors, which yes, are similar:

https://www.integrativelifecenter.com/w ... addiction/

[bloke]

I believe I'm with "bort"...

I really enjoy working...to exhaustion (as I just now did...thus the break...) and - if my mind isn't exhausted, I post crap in text boxes and hit "Submit".

I'm not sure that the type of work matters so much...
[1] frustrating work: Mrs. bloke is about 10,000% better at dealing with frustration than am I.
[2] busy work: meh...whatever
[3] productive work (whether-or-not it requires a high level of skill) : YIPPIE/ZOWIE !!!!!
[4] paid-to-do-nothing: I'm waiting for it to end. A perfect example is a typical orchestra rehearsal...for a tuba player.
[5] playing music: It's good - if it's good. If it's not good, it's very similar to [3].

I'm pretty sure - then - that [3] must be those things which produce endorphins in my bloodstream, and to which I'm "addicted".

When my children were in their early teens, I began to remind them that - someday - they would no longer be able to do anything...so why not see just how much can be done - as well as how well it can all be done...(??) THAT HAVING BEEN SAID...remuneration (in our society) is the way in which others demonstrate their TRUE appreciation for our efforts.

[Mary Ann]

As someone who basically hates performing and who does it only because it allows me to play in groups.....musical groups were most of my social life, and yes I'm having a hard time of it. I don't think needing social contact with humans is an addiction, but that wasn't the topic of the post. I don't get people who need to get up in front of others and play, but there sure are a lot of them out there.

[bloke]

As someone who basically hates performing and who does it only because it allows me to play in groups.....musical groups were most of my social life, and yes I'm having a hard time of it. I don't think needing social contact with humans is an addiction, but that wasn't the topic of the post. I don't get people who need to get up in front of others and play, but there sure are a lot of them out there.

When someone pays me to do it (again: based on the customs of our society), I enjoy performing, because being paid means that those who are listening/watching are sincerely interesting in being there and witnessing the performance.

One reason (amongst other reasons) that I don't enjoy teaching very much is because - typically - those who are there to be taught are not those who financed the teaching, and there is definitely a correlation, there.

[gwwilk]

As someone who basically hates performing and who does it only because it allows me to play in groups.....musical groups were most of my social life, and yes I'm having a hard time of it. I don't think needing social contact with humans is an addiction, but that wasn't the topic of the post. I don't get people who need to get up in front of others and play, but there sure are a lot of them out there.

I concur, Mary Ann! The social aspects of getting together to rehearse and perform are what I miss most acutely in these 'mitigating' times! To maintain strict isolation with a select few exceptions for an extended period of time runs counter to human nature. And bear in mind that this is coming from someone who basically prefers 'me' time to 'we' time. Enough is enough! I'll admit I'm addicted to people after all...

[bloke]

I like quite a few people a whole bunch.
I like our cats and dogs more than I like some people I've met.
I also like productive work more than I like some people I've met.
That having been said, please note that none of the previous three sentences included the word, "dislike".

bloke "Words mean things."

[Three Valves]

Answer; Addictions are not addictions unless they are destructive and harmful to yourself, your family, your enablers or society.

Otherwise it's just a fun hobby!!

[donn]

Addiction

Real

• Opiates
• Nicotine
• Barbiturates
• etc.
• (maybe emotional indulgence)

Not so real

• Caffeine (truly addictive, but inconsequential)
• Playing music (consequential but not truly addictive)
• etc.

[GC]

As someone who basically hates performing and who does it only because it allows me to play in groups.....musical groups were most of my social life, and yes I'm having a hard time of it. I don't think needing social contact with humans is an addiction, but that wasn't the topic of the post. I don't get people who need to get up in front of others and play, but there sure are a lot of them out there.

As a basically unsociable person but addicted musician, I miss the rehearsals badly, but don't really care about performing that much. The people in the groups I play in are exceptionally good people, and I miss being around them, and they and my close family are the only people I'm that concerned about being around. The family I still see, but I do miss the musical family, too.

And on the question of addiction, I have to question whether an addiction to mild pain relievers is worse than living in constant, debilitating pain (not me, by the way).

[Jperry1466]

As someone who basically hates performing and who does it only because it allows me to play in groups.....musical groups were most of my social life, and yes I'm having a hard time of it. I don't think needing social contact with humans is an addiction, but that wasn't the topic of the post. I don't get people who need to get up in front of others and play, but there sure are a lot of them out there.

As a basically unsociable person but addicted musician, I miss the rehearsals badly, but don't really care about performing that much. The people in the groups I play in are exceptionally good people, and I miss being around them, and they and my close family are the only people I'm that concerned about being around. The family I still see, but I do miss the musical family, too.

And on the question of addiction, I have to question whether an addiction to mild pain relievers is worse than living in constant, debilitating pain (not me, by the way).

I have to agree wholeheartedly with both of these well-said posts. Addiction is a sore subject with me, having two children who went through treatment centers and are now 20 and 25 years in recovery. Daughter was a full blown alcoholic at 16, son was a meth addict at 20. Just so you know, the most addictive substance in our house was, and still is, Dr Pepper. I am proud of their fight for recovery and both are doing well with beautiful families, but those days were a hell on earth for us as parents. We of course blamed ourselves first: what did we do wrong? What did we not do enough of? What did we do too much? After much counseling, we are at peace (and the kids told us this over and over) that it was just bad decisions on their part. As for my own addition, I have to say food. Those of you who have ever taken prednisone know how it makes you constantly hungry. Part of my anti-rejection regimen for kidney transplant is 5mg of prednisone, EVERY day for the last 21 years. The munchies are a constant fight, and I am lucky I don't weigh more than my 230 lbs.
As for music, I am not addicted to performing. I enjoy the camaraderie of group rehearsals, and if we have a really good performance, I get a lot of satisfaction from that. Interestingly, when I was teaching band all those years, I got great satisfaction from seeing the light come on in young musicians' eyes. Preparation for competition was drudgery, but when they did well, it was very satisfying that something was well done. It has been a very long time since I was paid to play my instruments, other than being fed after performing (there's that dang food again), but the endorphin rush I get IF we play WELL is something I wouldn't trade.

[Yorkboy]

IMO, sugar is the most addictive substance on earth - maybe not as immediately dramatic (or dangerous) as narcotics or harmful behaviors, but long term (insidiously so) will do as much if not more destruction to your body.

As to playing music, playing at home alone does absolutely nothing for me, to the point that I will practice (excluding daily maintenence drills, etc) only when I have something that needs to be mastered. The "thrill" (if one can call it that) for me, comes from making good music with others. If the music is not good, I'd just as well leave my horn in its case.

(One of the most liberating things for me, upon leaving the "music business" as full-time remuneration, was turning down gigs that were taken, not because I'd be with good musicians making good music, but for the check at the end).

Nowadays, I get just as much (if not more) satisfaction from building tubas, and if I'm in the workshop at 3 AM "messing around", would that be considered an addiction?

[Three Valves]

...if I'm in the workshop at 3 AM "messing around", would that be considered an addiction?

OCD is not a disorder unless it is destructive and harmful to yourself, your family, your enablers or society.

Otherwise it's just a fun hobby!!

[Mary Ann]

And on the question of addiction, I have to question whether an addiction to mild pain relievers is worse than living in constant, debilitating pain (not me, by the way).

To me, an addiction is something that takes on a life of its own, and for your pain reliever thing to be an addiction you would need to continue to take them (in escalating doses) even if you no longer had pain. So in my book, you don't sound like you're addicted, and I kind of hope you were joking. I've been known to take things for sleep that I know to be addictive, and what I do is make sure I am well past several half lives of that stuff before I take it again. I gots 'nuf problems w/o adding an addiction on top.

[iiipopes]

Again, in lay person terms, NOBODY is correctly addressing, describing, or discussing the term "addiction." PLEASE go educate yourselves as to what an addiction truly is, what compulsive behaviour truly is, and how those two related concepts are distinguished from blokes' description of his points of view, which are fundamentally healthy. I posted links above.

Remember that I have been a criminal defense lawyer and a family lawyer in my prior life (I no longer practice, so don't ask) and through necessity I have had to learn about and deal with all of these issues and their real-world consequences with the help of professionals in the field advising me so I could help clients and properly discuss situations with opposing counsel, social workers, and law enforcement.

If everybody who posted on this thread actually took the time to educate themselves as I have had to do, everything posted here is about preferences, dedication, coping mechanisms, and opinions, not "addiction" in its real clinical application, along with grave blurring of the distinction between addiction and compulsive behavior.

PLEASE STOP AND EDUCATE YOURSELVES BEFORE POSTING FURTHER.

[LeMark]

I agree the term addiction is thrown around liberally and without context. Thanks for the reminder