Transposing question kinda?

[foxZe]

So some solos I know can be played on either bass or contrabass with most on bass tuba like RVW (except the one kid on YouTube that does it with a Bb) but I was wondering if you have a solo that is specifically meant to only be on either F or Eb, could you bring it up or down a few steps to play it on a Bb or C tuba?

[bloke]

Since most all tubas - played by accomplished players - can cover a range of pitches a little bit below the bottom range of the piano keyboard up to around the third space C in the treble clef, most all tuba solos can be played on most any fully chromatic tuba.

Fairly recently, someone asked me if I might share an orchestra-sponsored recital with them, but the covid thing threw a wrench in all that. I was considering putting together mix and match of movements from misc. Bach cello suites that - once placed together - would seem as though they were actually an originally juxtaposed set of dance movements. I was going to play them on my really large contrabass (BB-flat) tuba to demonstrate to the attendees what the really big tubas (that they see on stage) actually sound like.

Otherwise, I'd probably play most any tuba solo on my F tuba. For one thing, it is really really easy to play in tune, for another thing, it's really easy to move around all over the place very quickly on it, and for yet another thing, it produces a really nice sound. I can see some people shying away from some F tubas - whereby they're afraid of C below the staff - and I can see other people shying away from particular F tubas because the C in the staff is so very sharp. Finally, I can see people shying away from contrabass tubas to play particular solos due to accuracy (sorting out high partials) issues.

The body of this response a bunch of blather which basically takes up space and expresses opinions, but the main point of this response - that all fully chromatic tubas can cover the range of all tuba solos - was stated at the very beginning.

[DonO.]

When I was a college tuba major back in the Dark Ages, I went to a small college with only one brass instructor. He was a trombone guy, and did not make me switch from BBb. When I got my master’s degree, the tuba instructor was a BBb guy and also did not make me switch. So I’ve been a BBb guy all my life and still am. I played all the standard solos in the undergrad curriculum and all my recitals on BBb. In retrospect, however, I sometimes wish I’d picked up Eb or F for solo playing. It would have been easier probably, especially those solos with a relatively high tessitura. I could only afford one horn then though. But back in the day it did force me to develop high range!

[gocsick]

What @bloke is 100% true for accomplished/professional tuba players. Most community band, high school, amateur, etc tuba players are going to have a much smaller usable range. In that world I very rarely see parts below Eb1 or getting as high as Bb3/C4. Personally F4 for me is really rough or hit and miss on BBb and Eb unless I am really working on high range (I never do, because I don't ever have to play up there), so there is a large portion of the solo lit that I and most amateurs would have to take it down.

I've also transposed several recognizable orchestral excerpts from sharp keys to more street band friendly keys, such as Ride from B to Bb, so we can build a jam around them. Since 90% of the charts we play are in Eb, Bb, or F.

[donn]

could you bring it up or down a few steps to play it on a Bb or C tuba?

Yes.

[MiBrassFS]

There were some published solos I think associated with Pat Sheridan that used the original “trumpet” fingering patterns that were transposed for various keys of tubas. I don’t have any detailed info.

[bloke]

There were some published solos I think associated with Pat Sheridan that used the original “trumpet” fingering patterns that were transposed for various keys of tubas. I don’t have any detailed info.

That's a really good sub-topic, in other words "how particular solos sit/lay on the various lengths of tubas".

[tubanh84]

There were some published solos I think associated with Pat Sheridan that used the original “trumpet” fingering patterns that were transposed for various keys of tubas. I don’t have any detailed info.

That's a really good sub-topic, in other words "how particular solos sit/lay on the various lengths of tubas".

Oboe literature on F tuba. Sits incredibly well.

[jtm]

...
Oboe literature on F tuba. Sits incredibly well.

Just taken down two octaves? Or played with "trumpet fingerings" so oboe C4 is tuba F2?

[bloke]

It's actually not all that much trouble to take a ruler, add a staff line above the treble clef on paper-printed oboe solos, witeout the bottom staff line along (with some other touch-ups), and end up with a bass clef version of an oboe solo for - sure - F or E flat tuba.

It's also a very handy skill to be able to read treble clef, because that's the most common clef encountered in western music.

[MiBrassFS]

There were some published solos I think associated with Pat Sheridan that used the original “trumpet” fingering patterns that were transposed for various keys of tubas. I don’t have any detailed info.

I just wanted to note that I feel I miswrote this idea by leaving out the critical point. The solo parts retained the familiar “trumpet fingering” patterns. The accompaniment was transposed to accommodate the key of the tuba. Just in case this was not understood.

[tubanh84]

...
Oboe literature on F tuba. Sits incredibly well.

Just taken down two octaves? Or played with "trumpet fingerings" so oboe C4 is tuba F2?

I just read off the oboe score. So it works out that I take it two octaves down, yes.

[bloke]

...
Oboe literature on F tuba. Sits incredibly well.

Just taken down two octaves? Or played with "trumpet fingerings" so oboe C4 is tuba F2?

I just read off the oboe score. So it works out that I take it two octaves down, yes.

Oboe range is a "low B-flat" up to an F or G 2-1/2 octaves higher...
...perfect for doing embarrassingly bad jobs of playing them two octaves lower in recitals attended by seven people.

[tubanh84]

Just taken down two octaves? Or played with "trumpet fingerings" so oboe C4 is tuba F2?

I just read off the oboe score. So it works out that I take it two octaves down, yes.

Oboe range is a "low B-flat" up to an F or G 2-1/2 octaves higher...
...perfect for doing embarrassingly bad jobs of playing them two octaves lower in recitals attended by seven people.

There were well over 50 people in the room when I did the Mozart approximately 10 years ago. But about 7 when I initially performed it in 2007 at the end of my undergrad. But with the affirmative blessing of a very fine oboe player who had given me a coaching on it the month prior, so whether it was embarrassingly bad or just in bad taste is an open question.

[bloke]

Take a look at the Poulenc Oboe Sonata.

yes...The scherzo is a "booger", but (ignoring the technical, and sorry, but) it really requires a bit more musical subtleties and phrasing ability than (100?)% of tuba players possess.

Yes, it COULD (someday, perhaps...) be an extraordinary tuba sonata.

This it the best rendition I've ever heard...(I'm glad I wasn't there in-person, because I shed tears every time I play this video).

(Poulenc's very close friend, Prokofiev, had just died, and Poulenc himself would - very shortly after writing this very last work of his - be dead.)

btw...Some ignorant d-------es need to stop making jokes about the sound of the oboe, and pay attention to what's being emitted from their own instruments (ok...just "an opinion", fwiw)

[donn]

I'd go as far as saxophone -


(Not me in person - haven't worked up the high range on the bass sax, for one thing. The gyrations, though - I bet I could do that.)

[bloke]

Yeah yeah. Saxophone players like to play that. It's a damn shame that they do. Fortunately, it's still too hard for tuba players to play play the scherzo.

[russiantuba]

I use both my CC and my F on solos and try to program solos on both. I also make students that have both a bass and contrabass tuba solo on the contrabass tuba as a recital requirement.

I use horns for color and timbre.

The only time horn key matters is on theme and variation pieces when you learned the fingerings on one tuba and the finger pattern is important.

Another reason would be a piece that has contemporary techniques. I brought this issue up at Falcone many years ago (and fell on deaf ears in the community) when they asked for Michael Forbes’s “The Grumpy Troll” on the semifinal round of Falcone. This piece requires the performer to remove the 4th slide, and depending on the key of the horn, it will change the key of the piece. He only publishes versions for Eb tuba and F tuba, so I brought up universities that don’t have access to an F and this piece is unplayable on a CC or BBb, which alienates a sizable portion of the community. I don’t think this particular piece will be programmed for competitions in the future.

At the major either Markneukirchen or Jeju, one of the Russian competitors made a late round in the solo competition on a BBb. Likewise with orchestral, I was told the Pittsburgh Symphony audition that Sumner Erickson won, a guy from Germany used only an F tuba in the first round, because that’s all he could transport, and advanced. Someone there said Ride was asked on the first round.

[tofu]

Take a look at the Poulenc Oboe Sonata.

yes...The scherzo is a "booger", but (ignoring the technical, and sorry, but) it really requires a bit more musical subtleties and phrasing ability than (100?)% of tuba players possess.

Yes, it COULD (someday, perhaps...) be an extraordinary tuba sonata.

This it the best rendition I've ever heard...(I'm glad I wasn't there in-person, because I shed tears every time I play this video).

(Poulenc's very close friend, Prokofiev, had just died, and Poulenc himself would - very shortly after writing this very last work of his - be dead.)

btw...Some ignorant d-------es need to stop making jokes about the sound of the oboe, and pay attention to what's being emitted from their own instruments (ok...just "an opinion", fwiw)

In a weird side tangent also connecting 2 threads - maybe 35 years ago I played with Ray Still’s son - Ray of course was an extraordinary oboe player for the CSO. He lived in my town as did several CSO members - CSO french horn player Dale Clevenger directed the town orchestra. Ray’s son was an incredibly talented concert pianist who joined us for a concert in St Louis where we did Rhapsody in Blue and An American in Paris. I did not debate at the time what tuba was appropriate as I owned only 1 then as a poor just out of college buy what you can afford young adult and you play what you got right? - so the big Besson BBb comp it was for the solo.

The oboe in the right hands is just such an amazing instrument. There are so many pieces with absolutely stunningly beautiful oboe solos that I just can’t imagine anything else coming close to that level of beauty playing those solos. In the wrong hands of course the oboe will make you want to run and hide.

[bloke]

A decade ago (one of my freeway philharmonic music directors...) the first thing he did was to fire the entire woodwind section (other than the third flute, who - do this day - is still the principal flute - a marvelous one, btw).

There are quite a few very fine oboists around these parts, and - when one isn't available - there are others who are...oh yeah, and LUCKY FOR US !!!

Out of the entire orchestra (when this music director took over, and according to my bass trombone buddy) only seven of us remain.
TRUTH: Prior to this music director taking over, I kept it a secret that I played with this ensemble.