John Packer JP377 Eb Tuba 6 Month Review

[Doc]

My assessment after 6+ months of ownership:

[2nd tenor]

That is one fine Band, respect. I love the group that I play with but to be part of ‘something’ like that would be special, a privilege even.

Fantastic choice of music on the stage too.

(For what it’s worth I’m not someone given to praising anyone without really good cause - I’m told that that’s one of my faults.)

[Doc]

That is one fine Band, respect. I love the group that I play with but to be part of ‘something’ like that would be special, a privilege even.

Fantastic choice of music on the stage too.

(For what it’s worth I’m not someone given to praising anyone without really good cause - I’m told that that’s one of my faults.)

Thanks for the kind words. We were missing a couple of players, including sopranino Eb cornet - some high stuff missing, and only one Bb bass since I was filling in the absent Eb bass for that rehearsal - all that low growly goodness is my stand partner Mike Holland on that 1960's MW 5/4 BBb I posted about a while back (and his pedal Bb at the end of Star Wars while I play low Bb ). Even though there should be two BBb basses and two Eb basses, we held our own in rehearsal ok. Not sure I'd want to work that hard all the time.

It's a really good group, for sure. If you can find a brass band near you, check it out. It is a great experience. I've posted a couple concerts on my channel if you want to hear the band with all personnel.

[2nd tenor]

Thanks for that lead Doc.

I play Eb Bass in a Brass Band, I’ve played BBb too but the Eb is the more challenging and interesting part, IMHO.

For anyone who would like to here Brass Banding at its best here is Houston Brass Band playing Bohemian Rhapsody:




And here playing something more associated with Brass Bands but again so expertly:



https://houstonbrassband.org/

[LibraryMark]

... Eb is the more challenging and interesting part, IMHO.

I've played both and found just the opposite. Brass band BBb takes real work. Eb seemed to me (in most arrangements) like just a largish euph. As a tuba player, I've always want to support the band from the very bottom. Eb left me very frustrated in that regard. I learned a lot from my short time in a brass band, but my playing only improved because of the time I spent on BBb, not Eb. I am much more able to support a wind band because I learned how to really put out the sound. And my low range really did not exist before.

(I've got a JP377, too)

[Doc]

... Eb is the more challenging and interesting part, IMHO.

I've played both and found just the opposite. Brass band BBb takes real work. Eb seemed to me (in most arrangements) like just a largish euph. As a tuba player, I've always want to support the band from the very bottom. Eb left me very frustrated in that regard. I learned a lot from my short time in a brass band, but my playing only improved because of the time I spent on BBb, not Eb. I am much more able to support a wind band because I learned how to really put out the sound. And my low range really did not exist before.

(I've got a JP377, too)

I have seen some really nice (and challenging) Eb parts, and I'm always excited to play them. Years ago when I was the Eb bass section, I really enjoyed it. Another fun-for-me part of playing Eb bass is locking a solid, penetrating octave on top of the Bb basses that seems to enhance what the Bb basses are doing. Playing Bb bass seems very "at home" when putting a bottom on the band (pedal notes are often written and encouraged), and I do agree that if you learn how to be the foundation for a good brass band, that helps you in all other foundation-supplying applications.

In this video, check out the last chord. My stand partner @Tuba1153 is laying down a fat, growly pedal Bb, I'm providing the laser beam low Bb, and the Eb bass is topping it off with Bb in the staff (and all those other Bb's being played among the band). It's quite the sound, IMHO, and everybody is working hard and working together to line up and lay down a solid and deep foundation.



I love to play pedal tones (and I take most of the pedal C's b/c of 5 valves), but quite frankly, I very much like the sort of synergistic sound that we get when Mike plays pedal Bb on his 5/4 MW Bb, I play low Bb on the 496, and brother Dave plays the Bb in the staff on his Gronitz (Yorkish) piston Eb. And I also like to play those octaves on Eb! But I digress...

[Doc]

... Eb is the more challenging and interesting part, IMHO.

I've played both and found just the opposite. Brass band BBb takes real work.

Speaking of real work…

[Oedipoes]

Speaking of real work…

Nice!!
(the bass trombone blowing into the microphone's direction sure helps...)

[Doc]

[Nice!!
(the bass trombone blowing into the microphone's direction sure helps...)

I like the bass trombone to be strong, especially when it's down in the low range. It provides clarity and definition.

[2nd tenor]

... Eb is the more challenging and interesting part, IMHO.

I've played both and found just the opposite. Brass band BBb takes real work. Eb seemed to me (in most arrangements) like just a largish euph. As a tuba player, I've always want to support the band from the very bottom. Eb left me very frustrated in that regard. I learned a lot from my short time in a brass band, but my playing only improved because of the time I spent on BBb, not Eb. I am much more able to support a wind band because I learned how to really put out the sound. And my low range really did not exist before.

H’mm perhaps I should have phrased things differently.

A wise man once told me that the Eb Bass gives the note, the BBb Bass gives the weight and the Bass Trombone gives the edge; my experience is that he was (and is) correct.

Now what of mental effort in the Bass Section, well if there’s something technically difficult to play then it almost always ends up with the Eb’s to deliver (hence my comment) and if the Tuba section is going to have a break or be if reduced volume then the BBb’s seem to be given the rest rather than the Eb’s. Are the Eb’s more Euphonium like? I think them less nimble than a Euphonium and more nimble that a BBb and I think their slightly higher voice is more melodic than the BBb’s and less melodic than the Euphonium. Having the nimbleness to do stuff and a pleasing voice certainly helps the Eb’s, I hope that that’s objective rather than biased thought.

If the Bass section isn’t playing crisply enough for the conductor then the culprits are the BBb’s. However, let’s be fair about this, a BBb really doesn’t turn on a sixpence whereas an Eb might and the BBb takes even more physical effort to play than an Eb - give the rest to those that need it most. What does the BBb excel at? It excels at putting in those really low notes an octave below the Eb’s and adding weight when in unison with the Eb’s.

I’m a great one for the supportive nature of instruments, it’s structure within the Band. In the Bass section the BBb’s support the Eb’s and the Bass section both supports the band with a foundation of sound and rhythm and the the Euphoniums (leaders of the lower half of the Band) in their melodies - the march above being a nice example of a weighty Bass Section playing some good stuff.

YMMV but that’s my perspective and experience.

[bloke]

Since all went to the 19" bell ("because JF did", etc.), comp. E-flat's (though it did accomplish the providing of an "all-purpose" tuba) those instruments no longer furnish the (just previous post: brass-band specific) clarity of resonance that they did (a half century ago) when outfitted with 15" bells. That having been said, I prefer the sound of the old 17" bells (on the comp B-flats) vs. the (these days on the comp. B-flats) 19-inch bells.

In a symphony orchestra, the (single) tuba (whatever type) can either merely play along (mediocre, bland, dubious intonation, and - typically - entering just after the ensemble enters), or it can (avoiding the adjectives within the previous parentheses) "drive the bus". Symphony orchestras have an easier time performing with the latter, and - even fine orchestras - are always (during passages which include tuba) feeling their way, if the former. In particular, the principal trumpet feels more confident (and what an important voice to be confidently played !) when there is some BASS - right there with them, from the VERY beginning of their sound - when they enter.

[Tuba1153]

Since all went to the 19" bell ("because JF did", etc.), comp. E-flat's (though it did accomplish the providing of an "all-purpose" tuba) those instruments no longer furnish the (just previous post: brass-band specific) clarity of resonance that they did (a half century ago) when outfitted with 15" bells. That having been said, I prefer the sound of the old 17" bells (on the comp B-flats) vs. the (these days on the comp. B-flats) 19-inch bells.

In a symphony orchestra, the (single) tuba (whatever type) can either merely play along (mediocre, bland, dubious intonation, and - typically - entering just after the ensemble enters), or it can (avoiding the adjectives within the previous parentheses) "drive the bus". Symphony orchestras have an easier time performing with the latter, and - even fine orchestras - are always (during passages which include tuba) feeling their way, if the former. In particular, the principal trumpet feels more confident (and what an important voice to be confidently played !) when there is some BASS - right there with them, from the VERY beginning of their sound - when they enter.

My 16” bell gives my Eb a unique presence. It can be big and full but maintains the personality that woofy horns do not have.
I love playing my Eb!





My BMB Eb next to my CC Piggy


@Doc holding my MW BBb Right after it had some out-patient surgery by @bloke

[Tuba1153]

In this video, check out the last chord. My stand partner @Tuba1153 is laying down a fat, growly pedal Bb, I'm providing the laser beam low Bb, and the Eb bass is topping it off with Bb in the staff (and all those other Bb's being played among the band). It's quite the sound, IMHO, and everybody is working hard and working together to line up and lay down a solid and deep foundation.



I love to play pedal tones (and I take most of the pedal C's b/c of 5 valves), but quite frankly, I very much like the sort of synergistic sound that we get when Mike plays pedal Bb on his 5/4 MW Bb, I play low Bb on the 496, and brother Dave plays the Bb in the staff on his Gronitz (Yorkish) piston Eb. And I also like to play those octaves on Eb! But I digress...

Now the last note on this piece takes a serious trip to “Brown-town”



Please note the amazing stylings of @Doc and Dave Miller as well.

[2nd tenor]

Duplicate

[2nd tenor]

I've played both and found just the opposite. Brass band BBb takes real work. Eb seemed to me (in most arrangements) like just a largish euph.

That comment has been knocking around in my thoughts for the last few days. As an Eb player I lay down a bass line of rhythm and chordal sound for the rest of the band and at times am given / share the tune too. To sound like a largish Euphonium - a Tenor Tuba - is actually an advantage in that they have a lovely sonorous voice that’s capable of much precision, and oh to have the skill of the Euph players that I know. In practice here at home my aim is to emulate the sonorous sound of a Euphonium whist doing so playing much lower pitched notes. My playing must - is intended to - appeal to the listener rather than be grumbling and poorly controlled noises down in the basement. At the same time as delivering good tone quality - which makes all the difference and can take years of practice to achieve - I need to be able to play louder than a Euph and deliver a crisp bass line; as appropriate my conductor says to play like a string bass with each note having space/separation from the others - and that’s what I mostly deliver.

A largish Euphonium? When my BBb pals could not be with us then Eb Basses have very effectively delivered the bass line in rehearsals - indeed just one good and strong Eb Bass can be enough for a rehearsal - and even in performances two good and strong Eb’s can just about get you by. In quintet work an Eb’s excellent (for me at least) in delivering the bass line - even when in three valve form. We might be half an octave short of our BBb brothers but we’re not noticeably quieter and we’re perfectly capable of supplying enough of what’s needed to carry the band forward - peddle notes can sometimes be a welcome bonus, the icing on the cake, but the section’s work is very far from who can play the lowest pitch notes.

The EEb’s are glad of the support that our BBb colleagues give us and they are a part of the bass section for a reason, but the bass section’s work is most definitely shared and our abilities (in both player and instrument) overlap.

[LibraryMark]

never mind.

[Three Valves]

My BMB Eb next to my CC Piggy

“Who wears short shorts?”

[Tuba1153]

“Who wears short shorts?”

That would be me.

[GC]

I've had my JP377 for over 3 years now, and I'm quite satisfied with it. Not to say that I wouldn't change it for a superior instrument in a reasonable price range, but I'm expecting to use this horn the rest of my tuba playing days.

So far in Brit Brass Band on Eb bass, I've found it necessary to fill a lot of niches. Eb commonly plays in unison or octaves with the BBb's, occasionally in 5ths above (often split within the part), and sometimes other harmony intervals. There's a lot of playing in unison with the bass trombone. There's occasional (and often nerve-wracking) doubling of 2nd Baritone or 2nd Euphonium in their range, which may be really difficult.

Solo parts for tuba show up more often in Eb than BBb, often in high register (again, my weakness), and the more technical parts may get dumped on Eb. Since I can't tongue for @^*%, high and fast is a challenge for me. It forces me to improve my playing, but it can also kick my butt.

BBb and Eb both have their difficulties. When composers/arrangers stay in the basement all the time on the BBb parts, it's draining both physically and mentally. High register is rarely much of a problem on BBb, but keeping the breath going to support loud low parts can be exhausting. It's foolish to say that one part or the other is the workhorse and the other is easy. Both parts have their challenges, and they can both wear you out.

[Doc]

“Who wears short shorts?”

As it should be.

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